Un-flagged potential in a digital piano.


IAN GRAHAM
 

This post is not specifically about Biab, but I think (David ?) it may be of interest to those members who are keyboard players.

My 'piano' is a Kawai digital instrument. It IS 'a piano' in the sense that it has 19 native voices which can be controlled in various ways 
by the right keypress combination from the keyboard itself. 
But it is also fully midi-compliant, with good old traditional 5-pin sockets: it can both control and be controlled, or both. That is, if 
I invoke local 'off', and multi-timbral 'on', and put a computer in the middle, it is possible to combine and control sounds in ways that are 
either difficult or impossible direct from the keyboard. 
When I looked in the manual for the necessary midi data - program, MSB and LSB numbers - the numbers were so varied that I thought: 
"This doesn't look like a specifically designed system. This looks like a larger sound module."
And that is the point of this post, for so it has proved. 
There are sounds 'in there' which are not mentioned in the manual, nor accessible at all from the direct keyboard controls.

So, if you have a digital piano of reasonable quality, it might be worth exploring if it can do things that the maker doesn't tell you about!

Sincerely
Ian Graham
Wales UK


David H. Bailey
 

I agree it might be of interest to keyboard players!

Is it a GM or GM2 sound module? If you attach it via a midi interface to your computer and select it as the Midi-Out in BIAB and use a midi-only style, do you get the correct sounds?

I wonder if you did a web-search if there might be others who have investigated that before you and have posted their findings somewhere.

Thanks for sharing with us!
David

On 10/5/2021 8:59 AM, IAN GRAHAM via groups.io wrote:
This post is not specifically about Biab, but I think (David ?) it may be of interest to those members who are keyboard players.
My 'piano' is a Kawai digital instrument. It IS 'a piano' in the sense that it has 19 native voices which can be controlled in various ways by the right keypress combination from the keyboard itself.
But it is also fully midi-compliant, with good old traditional 5-pin sockets: it can both control and be controlled, or both. That is, if I invoke local 'off', and multi-timbral 'on', and put a computer in the middle, it is possible to combine and control sounds in ways that are either difficult or impossible direct from the keyboard.
When I looked in the manual for the necessary midi data - program, MSB and LSB numbers - the numbers were so varied that I thought: "This doesn't look like a specifically designed system. This looks like a larger sound module."
And that is the point of this post, for so it has proved. There are sounds 'in there' which are not mentioned in the manual, nor accessible at all from the direct keyboard controls.
So, if you have a digital piano of reasonable quality, it might be worth exploring if it can do things that the maker doesn't tell you about! Sincerely Ian Graham Wales UK
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


IAN GRAHAM
 

Hallo, David

I'm afraid I can't completely answer your first set of questions. I'm
coming at it primarily from the point of view of having a greater
variety of sounds under my fingers for direct live play. The little
notebook computer I use beside the keyboard doesn't have BIAB on it and
would probably struggle with it. I am still exploring just what sounds
are there and how they're numbered. The numbering of the declared native
voices is certainly GM-compliant, and I have found some others that also
match that - e.g. a basic flute sound (which isn't much of a flute, but
layered at different octaves gives a decent quiet organ sound), a good
guitar or 'plucked' sound, both of which fill a 'gap' in the
specification of the basic instrument.

Beyond that, my current impression is that there may not be a full GM
set: when I run through numbers sequentially, some steps produce no
variation , and then it seems to cross a threshold into a different
sound, which may again be repeated several times. I have yet to explore
the 'higher banks' of which there are 8 instances in the prescribed
numbering of the native sounds.

But percussion (Channel 10) is good, and the native 'Wood Bass' is
probably the best example of the 33/32 Acoustic Bass sound I have
anywhere, so I can envisage exporting drum and bass accompaniments from
BIAB as midi and using them that way.

As to your last point: this is second-time round for me on this topic:
several years ago, I began to suspect what I have described was the
case, and I was involved in quite an extended thread on a keyboard
group, to which a Kawai employee subscribed - and he wasn't having any
of it ! I didn't have the time then to follow it through methodically as
I now have.

My guess would be that this set-up is not unusual: I should think other
makers may have built a particular product around an existing sound
source. To take a converse example, I'm pretty sure that the Ketron,
which I know we both use, had a previous existence - otherwise what is
the point of the 2 Bank ?

If anyone wants to contact me privately about this, I'm open to that.

Sincerely

Ian G.

On 05/10/2021 14:28, David H. Bailey wrote:
I agree it might be of interest to keyboard players!

Is it a GM or GM2 sound module?  If you attach it via a midi interface
to your computer and select it as the Midi-Out in BIAB and use a
midi-only style, do you get the correct sounds?

I wonder if you did a web-search if there might be others who have
investigated that before you and have posted their findings somewhere.

Thanks for sharing with us!
David


On 10/5/2021 8:59 AM, IAN GRAHAM via groups.io wrote:
This post is not specifically about Biab, but I think (David ?) it
may be of interest to those members who are keyboard players.

My 'piano' is a Kawai digital instrument. It IS 'a piano' in the
sense that it has 19 native voices which can be controlled in various
ways by the right keypress combination from the keyboard itself.
But it is also fully midi-compliant, with good old traditional 5-pin
sockets: it can both control and be controlled, or both. That is, if
I invoke local 'off', and multi-timbral 'on', and put a computer in
the middle, it is possible to combine and control sounds in ways that
are either difficult or impossible direct from the keyboard.
When I looked in the manual for the necessary midi data - program,
MSB and LSB numbers - the numbers were so varied that I thought:
"This doesn't look like a specifically designed system. This looks
like a larger sound module."
And that is the point of this post, for so it has proved. There are
sounds 'in there' which are not mentioned in the manual, nor
accessible at all from the direct keyboard controls.

So, if you have a digital piano of reasonable quality, it might be
worth exploring if it can do things that the maker doesn't tell you
about! Sincerely Ian Graham Wales UK