Keyboard recommendation


Tim Lawson
 

Hello All,

I will endeavor to keep this short and simple.  I've read this forum for years, but never posted.

I have used BIAB for 20 years or so.  I have used it to create backing tracks on rare occasion  I have enjoyed the process and, quite often, the results.  But, this is not how I usually use it.

Most often, I use it to create lead sheets for my group.  I will enter the chords of a particular tune, and using my M Audio 49e keystation, I enter the parts of the different instruments I hear on the original recording.  If a guitar part is only chordal, then I just provide the guitar player with a chord lead sheet.  This works well when a pop song has, say, a flute or oboe line, or strings.  My keyboard player can simulate those when they come up in the song.  And on the Mac, it was pretty simple; as long as my ear training held up I could plug in, play and produce what I needed.

After decades of Mac use, last year I took the plunge and went Windows, primarily to use BIAB for Windows because the notation capabilities of the Mac version are so limited, so far behind the Windows version.  So, I have BIAB 2020, but I cannot seem to use the M Audio keyboard anymore because of a latency problem for which there seems to be no answer.  I've consulted the online technical staff at PG who were as helpful as possible, and I've talked with a forum guru here, but I can't get things resolved.  Consequently, I just pushed it to the side and stopped using/learning the BIAB 2020 for Windows.

My question to fellow users is this:  Knowing what I want to do, can someone please provide me with direction to get it done?  I'm not looking for any sort of studio set-up that involves a lot of equipment.  I'm just looking for a recommendation of which (basic) USB keyboard I can plug into my LG gram, run BIAB and record without the latency problems I am now encountering so I can produce lead sheets.

I'll appreciate any assistance you can give me.

Timothy


David H. Bailey
 

My first question is why are you using BIAB as essentially a music notation program?

You might consider trying MuseScore, a powerful and free notation program.

Is the latency and issue where you hit the key and it takes a second (or half a second) to hear the sound? That has more to do with the playback device you're using than the keyboard. Try using a playback engine such as Coolsoft Virtual Midi Synth, which is free, with a soundfont, which you can also find free on the web. Using that, my latency in BIAB is 0 (zero).

However using the soft-synths that BIAB provides, such as Coyote, the latency is unbearable and unusable.

I hope someone can chime in and give you good input as to a keyboard to look into. I never use the notation aspect of BIAB so I can't advise you about that.

Please keep us posted as to what you find out!

David H. Bailey

On 5/20/2021 6:40 PM, tmnnx via groups.io wrote:
Hello All,
I will endeavor to keep this short and simple.  I've read this forum for years, but never posted.
I have used BIAB for 20 years or so.  I have used it to create backing tracks on rare occasion  I have enjoyed the process and, quite often, the results.  But, this is not how I usually use it.
Most often, I use it to create lead sheets for my group.  I will enter the chords of a particular tune, and using my M Audio 49e keystation, I enter the parts of the different instruments I hear on the original recording.  If a guitar part is only chordal, then I just provide the guitar player with a chord lead sheet.  This works well when a pop song has, say, a flute or oboe line, or strings.  My keyboard player can simulate those when they come up in the song.  And on the Mac, it was pretty simple; as long as my ear training held up I could plug in, play and produce what I needed.
After decades of Mac use, last year I took the plunge and went Windows, primarily to use BIAB for Windows because the notation capabilities of the Mac version are so limited, so far behind the Windows version.  So, I have BIAB 2020, but I cannot seem to use the M Audio keyboard anymore because of a latency problem for which there seems to be no answer. I've consulted the online technical staff at PG who were as helpful as possible, and I've talked with a forum guru here, but I can't get things resolved.  Consequently, I just pushed it to the side and stopped using/learning the BIAB 2020 for Windows.
My question to fellow users is this:  Knowing what I want to do, can someone please provide me with direction to get it done?  I'm not looking for any sort of studio set-up that involves a lot of equipment. I'm just looking for a recommendation of which (basic) USB keyboard I can plug into my LG gram, run BIAB and record without the latency problems I am now encountering so I can produce lead sheets.
I'll appreciate any assistance you can give me.
Timothy
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Tom Spencer
 

Hi Tim,

I have had this problem with various keyboards and windows latency. The best solution I have found so far, is to use the ASIO4ALL driver. There will still be latency issues but so far this is the best that I have been able to find. If someone has something better I would love to hear about it

Tom


Tim Lawson
 

Hello Tom,

Thank you for the information; I will look into that further.  I really never expected this issue when I crossed over to BIAB for windows.  I never had to deal with this with my Mac; it was plug and play away - never a latency problem.

I appreciate your taking the time to respond, Tom.

Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Spencer <ngatoms214@...>
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Sent: Thu, May 20, 2021 3:45 pm
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Keyboard recommendation

Hi Tim,
I have had this problem with various keyboards and windows latency. The best solution I have found so far, is to use the ASIO4ALL driver. There will still be latency issues but so far this is the best that I have been able to find. If someone has something better I would love to hear about it
Tom


Tim Lawson
 

Hello David,

Thanks for your response.  Your question is easily answered.  Because in one program I can set up a tune, play the parts I need my cohorts to practice, and print out their lead sheets from which they learn their parts.  

I'm far from being a non-techie (I'm a graphic designer by trade so I'm no stranger to computer software/hardware), but I guess, where music is concerned I most enjoy making it with others, not so much by myself and to that end I want the process of getting music to everyone to be as uncomplicated as possible.  This easy with BIAB for Mac, although the Mac version's notation capability was very rudimentary (couldn't print repeats, multiple endings, codas, etc.).

I will check out MuseScore and appreciate the suggestion; you're always generous with your time in answering so many here (I sometimes wonder when YOU get to make music).  It's a little difficult for me to understand how after so many years with midi this latency problem is still an issue for so many.

Cheers,

Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...>
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Sent: Thu, May 20, 2021 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Keyboard recommendation

My first question is why are you using BIAB as essentially a music
notation program?

You might consider trying MuseScore, a powerful and free notation program.

Is the latency and issue where you hit the key and it takes a second (or
half a second) to hear the sound?  That has more to do with the playback
device you're using than the keyboard.  Try using a playback engine such
as Coolsoft Virtual Midi Synth, which is free, with a soundfont, which
you can also find free on the web.  Using that, my latency in BIAB is 0
(zero).

However using the soft-synths that BIAB provides, such as Coyote, the
latency is unbearable and unusable.

I hope someone can chime in and give you good input as to a keyboard to
look into.  I never use the notation aspect of BIAB so I can't advise
you about that.

Please keep us posted as to what you find out!

David H. Bailey



On 5/20/2021 6:40 PM, tmnnx via groups.io wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I will endeavor to keep this short and simple.  I've read this forum for
> years, but never posted.
>
> I have used BIAB for 20 years or so.  I have used it to create backing
> tracks on rare occasion  I have enjoyed the process and, quite often,
> the results.  But, this is not how I usually use it.
>
> Most often, I use it to create lead sheets for my group.  I will enter
> the chords of a particular tune, and using my M Audio 49e keystation, I
> enter the parts of the different instruments I hear on the original
> recording.  If a guitar part is only chordal, then I just provide the
> guitar player with a chord lead sheet.  This works well when a pop song
> has, say, a flute or oboe line, or strings.  My keyboard player can
> simulate those when they come up in the song.  And on the Mac, it was
> pretty simple; as long as my ear training held up I could plug in, play
> and produce what I needed.
>
> After decades of Mac use, last year I took the plunge and went Windows,
> primarily to use BIAB for Windows because the notation capabilities of
> the Mac version are so limited, so far behind the Windows version.  So,
> I have BIAB 2020, but I cannot seem to use the M Audio keyboard anymore
> because of a latency problem for which there seems to be no answer. 
> I've consulted the online technical staff at PG who were as helpful as
> possible, and I've talked with a forum guru here, but I can't get things
> resolved.  Consequently, I just pushed it to the side and stopped
> using/learning the BIAB 2020 for Windows.
>
> My question to fellow users is this:  Knowing what I want to do, can
> someone please provide me with direction to get it done?  I'm not
> looking for any sort of studio set-up that involves a lot of equipment. 
> I'm just looking for a recommendation of which (basic) USB keyboard I
> can plug into my LG gram, run BIAB and record without the latency
> problems I am now encountering so I can produce lead sheets.
>
> I'll appreciate any assistance you can give me.
>
> Timothy
>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






David H. Bailey <dhbailey@...>
 

On 5/20/2021 6:45 PM, Tom Spencer wrote:
Hi Tim,
I have had this problem with various keyboards and windows latency. The best solution I have found so far, is to use the ASIO4ALL driver. There will still be latency issues but so far this is the best that I have been able to find. If someone has something better I would love to hear about it
[snip]

My Yamaha Portable Grand 650 keyboard doesn't have any latency issues.

But he hasn't responded to my question about his playback device --
there is horrible latency using a DXi softsynth like Coyote, a latency of about half a second or so, which is a quarter-note's worth of time trying to play music at 120 on the metronome. Totally unusable.

But using an external soft-synth which appears as a MIDI device in the devices list in BIAB has a latency of zerop, which is great.


--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com