Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious


tjzeschke@...
 

I downloaded the latest Ultrapak, and installed it in  my 2020 biab hd. Took a few hours to update the styles, but only had to download 352- 370 something. The rest was already on my old hd. Love the new cinematic metal guitars.


David H. Bailey
 

On 12/3/2020 11:43 PM, Cesar Pompeo wrote:
Dear all,
In my opinion, you may use Biab the way you want, but it can't do a job greater than a computer skill to help YOU do music.
To be sure you're doing the right thing, compare the time you spend on working at the computer to the time you're really playing. Forget the time spent on doing other jobs like making adjustments to Biab in order to get a better sound, you have only to answer two questions:
- How good do you do your job on playing?
- Are you ready to play with some other musicians and make it sounds a creation even if it's a standard played year after year by hundreds of musicians?
Someone told me not to send any kind of message at the time I'd be better sleeping. What's your impression about this?
[snip]


All valid points. Except the one about be better sleeping than sending any kind of message "at the time I'd be better sleeping."

Not all of us get good nights' sleep. I frequently wake up early and can't get back to sleep. Far too early to be playing my instruments because others in the house are still asleep. So that's a perfect time to be sending messages.

Or tweaking BIAB settings or song arrangements, using headphones.

Keeping our playing fresh is always an important and challenging thing to be doing. For many of us who use BIAB, we don't have groups of other musicians to play with. Me for example -- I teach private music lessons and repair woodwind and brass instruments to earn my living. Lessons must be taught when students are available which is from mid-afternoon into the later evening hours. And those evening hours are when other musicians who have 9-5 day jobs are available. Add to that the fact that there are not a lot of live music gigs around my area and thus the only combo playing I get is working with BIAB.

I also use BIAB a lot in my private lessons since the students I teach generally do not have jazz combos who play very well to play with. So creating BIAB backing tracks for them to play with and practice improvising with is very important.

With all of that, I need to spend a lot of time using BIAB and less time playing, since my livelihood depends on how good a private teacher I am.

The ultimate point is that there is no "one size fits all" in this wonderful musical life we're all trying to live, whether as professionals like Bob Norton, Jim Mings and some others, or as amateurs playing for our own enjoyment or entertaining small groups of our family and friends occasionally.


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


mike copeland
 

Totally agree with Cesar, as a musician, spending time playing is what is all about. That said, there are many people who enjoy tinkering with the computer as their version of “playing “ and there is nothing wrong with that.  I have used BIAB to support my playing, offer an outlook for different styles I had not considered and it never gets tired of me wanting to play the same piece ad infinitum.  BIAB has made me a better musician playing live or in front of the computer.  

Michael Copeland

On Dec 3, 2020, at 8:00 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io <bienpegaito@...> wrote:


Spoken as a true musician, Cesar  ... but the world needs instrument makers, engineers, computer coders and a whole other host of things in addition. :)

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 8:43:36 PM PST, Cesar Pompeo <capompeo@...> wrote:


Dear all,

In my opinion, you may use Biab the way you want, but it can't do a job greater than a computer skill to help YOU do music. 

To be sure you're doing the right thing, compare the time you spend on working at the computer to the time you're really playing. Forget the time spent on doing other jobs like making adjustments to Biab in order to get a better sound, you have only to answer two questions:

- How good do you do your job on playing? 

- Are you ready to play with some other musicians and make it sounds a creation even if it's a standard played year after year by hundreds of musicians?

Someone told me not to send any kind of message at the time I'd be better sleeping. What's your impression about this?

Regards!




Em qui, 3 de dez de 2020 19:39, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> escreveu:
I'm kinda busy now, too.  Installing the new BIAB.  :)

I'd much rather let BIAB do the heavy lifting in making these arrangements.

I do appreciate you figuring out a way to use these wma files outside of
BIAB, complicated though it might be.

Thanks!
David




On 12/3/2020 5:04 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)
>
> But you can do it for free.
>
> Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
>       
>
>
>     Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
>
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
> Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one
> single bass lick ..."
>
> Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack
> set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and
> possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose
> your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each
> as we all know from 'regenerate.'
>
> But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if
> you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.
>
> DF
>
> On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey
> <dhbailey52@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi DF,
>
> I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
> using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
> style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).
>
> So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
> version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
> accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
> 2 bar ending)?
>
> Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.
>
> I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
> play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
> mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
> being played over and over again.
>
> If you can do it, great.
>
> I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
> nature of what you're describing.
>
> Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
> intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
> work from there.
>
> But as you say, it's possible . . .
>
> Thanks for outlining how it could be done!
>
>
> On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
>  > David ...
>  >
>  > I'll take you up on your challenge!
>  >
>  > Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
>  > either as WMA or Wav files.
>  >
>  > Laborious, but technically easy.
>  >
>  > You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
>  > program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
>  > accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>  >
>  > It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
>  > other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>  >
>  > Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
>  > identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
>  > file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
>  > (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
>  > passage could be recorded in.
>  >
>  > So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
>  > Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
>  > one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>  >
>  > This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
>  > section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
>  > results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>  >
>  > As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
>  > tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
>  > for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
>  > into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
>  > from up or down.
>  >
> [snp]
>
> --
> *****
> David H. Bailey
> dhbailey52@... <mailto:dhbailey52@...>
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






D F Tweedie
 

Spoken as a true musician, Cesar  ... but the world needs instrument makers, engineers, computer coders and a whole other host of things in addition. :)

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 8:43:36 PM PST, Cesar Pompeo <capompeo@...> wrote:


Dear all,

In my opinion, you may use Biab the way you want, but it can't do a job greater than a computer skill to help YOU do music. 

To be sure you're doing the right thing, compare the time you spend on working at the computer to the time you're really playing. Forget the time spent on doing other jobs like making adjustments to Biab in order to get a better sound, you have only to answer two questions:

- How good do you do your job on playing? 

- Are you ready to play with some other musicians and make it sounds a creation even if it's a standard played year after year by hundreds of musicians?

Someone told me not to send any kind of message at the time I'd be better sleeping. What's your impression about this?

Regards!




Em qui, 3 de dez de 2020 19:39, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> escreveu:
I'm kinda busy now, too.  Installing the new BIAB.  :)

I'd much rather let BIAB do the heavy lifting in making these arrangements.

I do appreciate you figuring out a way to use these wma files outside of
BIAB, complicated though it might be.

Thanks!
David




On 12/3/2020 5:04 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)
>
> But you can do it for free.
>
> Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
>       
>
>
>     Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
>
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
> Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one
> single bass lick ..."
>
> Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack
> set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and
> possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose
> your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each
> as we all know from 'regenerate.'
>
> But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if
> you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.
>
> DF
>
> On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey
> <dhbailey52@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi DF,
>
> I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
> using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
> style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).
>
> So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
> version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
> accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
> 2 bar ending)?
>
> Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.
>
> I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
> play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
> mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
> being played over and over again.
>
> If you can do it, great.
>
> I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
> nature of what you're describing.
>
> Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
> intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
> work from there.
>
> But as you say, it's possible . . .
>
> Thanks for outlining how it could be done!
>
>
> On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
>  > David ...
>  >
>  > I'll take you up on your challenge!
>  >
>  > Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
>  > either as WMA or Wav files.
>  >
>  > Laborious, but technically easy.
>  >
>  > You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
>  > program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
>  > accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>  >
>  > It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
>  > other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>  >
>  > Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
>  > identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
>  > file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
>  > (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
>  > passage could be recorded in.
>  >
>  > So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
>  > Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
>  > one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>  >
>  > This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
>  > section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
>  > results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>  >
>  > As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
>  > tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
>  > for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
>  > into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
>  > from up or down.
>  >
> [snp]
>
> --
> *****
> David H. Bailey
> dhbailey52@... <mailto:dhbailey52@...>
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Cesar Pompeo
 

Dear all,

In my opinion, you may use Biab the way you want, but it can't do a job greater than a computer skill to help YOU do music. 

To be sure you're doing the right thing, compare the time you spend on working at the computer to the time you're really playing. Forget the time spent on doing other jobs like making adjustments to Biab in order to get a better sound, you have only to answer two questions:

- How good do you do your job on playing? 

- Are you ready to play with some other musicians and make it sounds a creation even if it's a standard played year after year by hundreds of musicians?

Someone told me not to send any kind of message at the time I'd be better sleeping. What's your impression about this?

Regards!




Em qui, 3 de dez de 2020 19:39, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> escreveu:

I'm kinda busy now, too.  Installing the new BIAB.  :)

I'd much rather let BIAB do the heavy lifting in making these arrangements.

I do appreciate you figuring out a way to use these wma files outside of
BIAB, complicated though it might be.

Thanks!
David




On 12/3/2020 5:04 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)
>
> But you can do it for free.
>
> Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
>       
>
>
>     Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
>
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
> Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one
> single bass lick ..."
>
> Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack
> set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and
> possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose
> your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each
> as we all know from 'regenerate.'
>
> But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if
> you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.
>
> DF
>
> On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey
> <dhbailey52@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi DF,
>
> I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
> using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
> style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).
>
> So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
> version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
> accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
> 2 bar ending)?
>
> Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.
>
> I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
> play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
> mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
> being played over and over again.
>
> If you can do it, great.
>
> I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
> nature of what you're describing.
>
> Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
> intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
> work from there.
>
> But as you say, it's possible . . .
>
> Thanks for outlining how it could be done!
>
>
> On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
>  > David ...
>  >
>  > I'll take you up on your challenge!
>  >
>  > Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
>  > either as WMA or Wav files.
>  >
>  > Laborious, but technically easy.
>  >
>  > You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
>  > program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
>  > accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>  >
>  > It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
>  > other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>  >
>  > Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
>  > identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
>  > file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
>  > (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
>  > passage could be recorded in.
>  >
>  > So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
>  > Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
>  > one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>  >
>  > This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
>  > section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
>  > results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>  >
>  > As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
>  > tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
>  > for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
>  > into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
>  > from up or down.
>  >
> [snp]
>
> --
> *****
> David H. Bailey
> dhbailey52@... <mailto:dhbailey52@...>
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






David H. Bailey
 

I'm kinda busy now, too. Installing the new BIAB. :)

I'd much rather let BIAB do the heavy lifting in making these arrangements.

I do appreciate you figuring out a way to use these wma files outside of BIAB, complicated though it might be.

Thanks!
David

On 12/3/2020 5:04 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)
But you can do it for free.
Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>

Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
<https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one single bass lick ..."
Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each as we all know from 'regenerate.'
But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.
DF
On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi DF,
I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).
So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
2 bar ending)?
Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.
I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
being played over and over again.
If you can do it, great.
I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
nature of what you're describing.
Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
work from there.
But as you say, it's possible . . .
Thanks for outlining how it could be done!
On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> David ...
>
> I'll take you up on your challenge!
>
> Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
> either as WMA or Wav files.
>
> Laborious, but technically easy.
>
> You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
> program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
> accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>
> It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
> other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>
> Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
> identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
> file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
> (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
> passage could be recorded in.
>
> So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
> Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
> one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>
> This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
> section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
> results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>
> As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
> tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
> for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
> into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
> from up or down.
>
[snp]
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net <mailto:dhbailey52@comcast.net>
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


D F Tweedie
 

Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)

But you can do it for free.



Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one single bass lick ..."

Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each as we all know from 'regenerate.'

But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.

DF

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> wrote:


Hi DF,

I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).

So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
2 bar ending)?

Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.

I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
being played over and over again.

If you can do it, great.

I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
nature of what you're describing.

Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
work from there.

But as you say, it's possible . . .

Thanks for outlining how it could be done!


On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> David ...
>
> I'll take you up on your challenge!
>
> Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
> either as WMA or Wav files.
>
> Laborious, but technically easy.
>
> You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
> program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
> accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>
> It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
> other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>
> Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
> identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
> file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
> (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
> passage could be recorded in.
>
> So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
> Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
> one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>
> This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
> section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
> results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>
> As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
> tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
> for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
> into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
> from up or down.
>
[snp]

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






David H. Bailey
 

Hi DF,

I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'" using your method. The most common key I see that song in is Eb. The style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).

So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99 version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro, 2 bar ending)?

Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.

I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm. After all, they have to mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick being played over and over again.

If you can do it, great.

I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious nature of what you're describing.

Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then work from there.

But as you say, it's possible . . .

Thanks for outlining how it could be done!


On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
David ...
I'll take you up on your challenge!
Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted either as WMA or Wav files.
Laborious, but technically easy.
You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a passage could be recorded in.
So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem. Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift from up or down.
[snp]

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


D F Tweedie
 

David ...

I'll take you up on your challenge!

Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted either as WMA or Wav files.

Laborious, but technically easy.

You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.

It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.

Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a passage could be recorded in.

So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem. Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.

This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.

As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift from up or down.

DF Tweedie

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 3:13:26 AM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> wrote:


On 12/2/2020 8:52 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> I think this is technically true ... but then they wouldn't follow the
> key changes of  a song. I think it is like a sampler where they have 3
> or 4 identical passages spread out at different key signatures and then
> use the software to fill in the missing keys between the 'sample'
> passages' keys.
>
[snip]

Knowing as little as I do about computer programming these days (I know
enough to incorrectly think that something might be easy to program when
it's actually difficult or incorreclty think that something might be
difficult to program when an experienced programmer can accomplish it in
a few minutes) my mind always overheats and smoke starts pouring out my
ears when I try to wrap my head around the magic that PGMusic has
accomplished with how it handles RealTracks.

Yes, the realtracks are stored as wma files but how they're manipulated
to come together in the correct keys with such great results is truly
magical.

I was originally a huge doubter of the possibilities of realtracks,
preferring the relative simplicity and clarity of the midi styles.  But
with all the work PGMusic has done with them, improving the algorithms
and the sound quality of the realinstruments over the years, I'm slowly
converting many of my BIAB file to realtracks.

But I doubt that anybody could make sense of them in a sequencer all on
their own.  Then again, I've doubted many thing which have become
reality, so have fun experimenting.



--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






David H. Bailey
 

On 12/2/2020 8:52 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
I think this is technically true ... but then they wouldn't follow the key changes of  a song. I think it is like a sampler where they have 3 or 4 identical passages spread out at different key signatures and then use the software to fill in the missing keys between the 'sample' passages' keys.
[snip]

Knowing as little as I do about computer programming these days (I know enough to incorrectly think that something might be easy to program when it's actually difficult or incorreclty think that something might be difficult to program when an experienced programmer can accomplish it in a few minutes) my mind always overheats and smoke starts pouring out my ears when I try to wrap my head around the magic that PGMusic has accomplished with how it handles RealTracks.

Yes, the realtracks are stored as wma files but how they're manipulated to come together in the correct keys with such great results is truly magical.

I was originally a huge doubter of the possibilities of realtracks, preferring the relative simplicity and clarity of the midi styles. But with all the work PGMusic has done with them, improving the algorithms and the sound quality of the realinstruments over the years, I'm slowly converting many of my BIAB file to realtracks.

But I doubt that anybody could make sense of them in a sequencer all on their own. Then again, I've doubted many thing which have become reality, so have fun experimenting.



--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


D F Tweedie
 

I think this is technically true ... but then they wouldn't follow the key changes of  a song. I think it is like a sampler where they have 3 or 4 identical passages spread out at different key signatures and then use the software to fill in the missing keys between the 'sample' passages' keys.

On Wednesday, December 2, 2020, 5:31:52 PM PST, Bo Stottlemyer <bstottlemyer@...> wrote:


If I'm not mistaken, BIAB real tracks are stored as WMA files.  Audiophile Real Tracks are stored as wav files that can be played directly with the appropriate software.


Bo Stottlemyer
 

If I'm not mistaken, BIAB real tracks are stored as WMA files.  Audiophile Real Tracks are stored as wav files that can be played directly with the appropriate software.


rejenkins5103
 

 
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ron Jenkins (ConSensual Sax)" <rejenkins@...>
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io, nadpete@...
Date: 12/01/2020 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious
 
 
That is certainly correct.
Ron
On 12/01/2020 8:47 AM nadpete@... wrote:
 
 
Thanks, Rejenkins5103. That means that real tracks, etc., can only be used within BIAB and that the only way one could sort of export them is to generate a sound-format file (e.g., .wav). Is that correct?


nadpete@...
 

Thanks, Rejenkins5103. That means that real tracks, etc., can only be used within BIAB and that the only way one could sort of export them is to generate a sound-format file (e.g., .wav). Is that correct?


rejenkins5103
 

You are correct that the real tracks cannot be directly to midi.
However they can be used to make some great backing tracks.
 

On 11/30/2020 11:13 AM nadpete@... wrote:
 
 
Greetings,
I've been using BIAB for many years but in a very limited way. My current working version is 2012. 
I've only used BIAB to generate rhythm section parts that are exported through MIDI and then into Finale for most of my score work. So, the main thing I've been interested in are the MIDI styles, including those from Bob Norton. I've stayed away from Real Tracks, Real Styles, etc., because it seemed that they would only function within BIAB and their results would not be exportable via MIDI. Am I correct about this? If not, is there some online help available. Yes, I can RTFM, but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Peter Wilde


nadpete@...
 

Greetings,
I've been using BIAB for many years but in a very limited way. My current working version is 2012. 
I've only used BIAB to generate rhythm section parts that are exported through MIDI and then into Finale for most of my score work. So, the main thing I've been interested in are the MIDI styles, including those from Bob Norton. I've stayed away from Real Tracks, Real Styles, etc., because it seemed that they would only function within BIAB and their results would not be exportable via MIDI. Am I correct about this? If not, is there some online help available. Yes, I can RTFM, but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Peter Wilde