Topics

Upgrading to BIAB 2020 from BIAB v.2008.5 with Win 10 #BiaB2020 #BiaBPrevious


Don Jordan
 

Hi. I'd like some help here, please, if that's possible. I've been using BIAB for years and been very happy with it. I use it mainly to make backing tracks of band charts that I and other band members can play along with it we don't have a full rehearsal.

A couple of years ago I changed from Win 7 to Win 10 and I wish I hadn't, but it became too late to change back. I have two hard drives - C: for programs and D: for data and that worked OK while I was in charge, but Win 10 doesn't like it at all.

I find I now still have BIAB v.2008.5 as well as both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of BIAB 2020 on my PC, with files for v.2008.5 and 2020 spread over both C: and D: drives.

This is really difficult for me. What should I do? I'm going to have get a larger HDD for C: and forget about having two hard drives, as I think I'm going to have to succumb to Win 10's desperate desire to put everything where it wants it, rather than where I'm used to having it (I've been using PCs since they were first invented). This is going to make a lot of work for me in re-organising my whole file directory, but I think I have to bite the bullet.

Which version of BIAB 2020 should I keep - 32-bit or 64-bit? Can I uninstall v.2008.5 without harm occurring? Will I lose valuable files?

Thanks in advance.


Jeff Miller
 

I have to say that I am a bit confused by your post. Windows 7 and Windows 10 share the same file structure. You shouldn't see any difference in how or where files go. There should be absolutely no problem with having 1, 2, 3 or more hard drives set up however you like. Windows 10 actually gives you significantly more flexibility with this, so I wonder why you're having trouble?? 

There are oh so many reasons why Windows 10 is far superior to Windows 7 and its predecessors. I've run a tech consulting firm and for the last 40+ years we've been through literally every iteration of Microsoft Windows with our clients. By far, Windows 10 is better, hands down. 

With that said, if you're able to describe your problems in better detail I might be able to help. 

I keep both 32 AND 64-bit versions of BIAB on my DAW.  I am running Windows 10 and have 4 SSD hard drives attached. I keep a different version of BIAB 2020 on different SSDs.

I believe that if you installed BIAB 2020 s an upgrade to 2008 then there's really no need to uninstall 2008... however if you installed it as a stand-alone (keeping both versions) I would do a complete backup - really BIAB has kind of weird ways of storing stuff and I often can't find where it sticks some files unless I really look for them. Unless you have a compelling reason to uninstall anything I'd just leave it in place. SSD hard drives are so cheap these days it's certainly worthwhile having the biggest one you can afford as your main (C) drive.

Jeff


David H. Bailey
 

On 1/26/2020 4:46 AM, Don Jordan wrote:
Hi. I'd like some help here, please, if that's possible. I've been using BIAB for years and been very happy with it. I use it mainly to make backing tracks of band charts that I and other band members can play along with it we don't have a full rehearsal.
A couple of years ago I changed from Win 7 to Win 10 and I wish I hadn't, but it became too late to change back. I have two hard drives - C: for programs and D: for data and that worked OK while I was in charge, but Win 10 doesn't like it at all.
I find I now still have BIAB v.2008.5 as well as both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of BIAB 2020 on my PC, with files for v.2008.5 and 2020 spread over both C: and D: drives.
This is really difficult for me. What should I do? I'm going to have get a larger HDD for C: and forget about having two hard drives, as I think I'm going to have to succumb to Win 10's desperate desire to put everything where it wants it, rather than where I'm used to having it (I've been using PCs since they were first invented). This is going to make a lot of work for me in re-organising my whole file directory, but I think I have to bite the bullet.
Which version of BIAB 2020 should I keep - 32-bit or 64-bit? Can I uninstall v.2008.5 without harm occurring? Will I lose valuable files?
First off, I've had my C: drive for my programs and an E: drive for data for many many years and many many versions of Windows, currently Windows10 64-bit. Windows10 isn't any more bossy (or any less bossy) than any previous version of Windows I've ever used.

You just have to tell each program where you want it to store its data.

My current computer has a 1TB ssd for my C: drive and I have 4 other spinning hard drives in the computer case (E: F: G: H:) and I have various sorts of data and programs stored all over the place.

And for ease of backing my data up, I have all my data folders inside two Data folders on my E: drive, one marked Data for my wordprocessing and spreadsheet data, and one labeled Data - Music where all my music data files are stored. Then when I want to back things up, I simply create a new folder labeled "Backups 2020-01-26" [or whatever the date is that I do the backup] on an external hard drive and then drag both my Data and Data-Music as well as my main BB folders over to that new backup folder and all three main folders plus their subfolders get copied completely. After a few backups, I delete the older few, keeping my current backup folder and one previous one.

Since the SSD that is drive C: is so fast (with no moving parts) I have my main BB folder on my E: drive since I have so many styles and song files from over 20 years of using BIAB. I have a BB folder on my C: drive which is where I have the BIAB installation program place the real tracks and real drums files for quickest access. I install all my programs on the C: SSD drive for fastest access, too, but I go into the Settings or Preferences dialogs for each program and tell them where my Data or Data-Music folders are and have them place their data files there. Of course there are many subfolders insied my Data and Data-Music folders so all my data files remain organized.

So you don't need to get a huge C: drive and keep everything on that drive. You merely need to pay more attention when installing things and remember that you're the boss, *not* Windows.

As to whether you can uninstall BIAB2008.5 without losing things, that all depends on how you've installed BIAB2020. If they are in separate folders, as long as you have all the song files either in a separate folder completely or have copied them all over to your BIAB2020 directory you shouldn't lose anything.

If you keep installing each new version of BIAB into the same folder, then in my opinion there is no need to uninstall BIAB2018.5 since the actual program itself doesn't take up that much hard drive space. Most of the space is taken up by the styles and real tracks and real drums and the Demo folders (which you can safely delete if you don't want to listen to the demos).

I will say that buying a new larger HDD to be your C: drive is a royal pain in the butt because you'll have to reinstall Windows and all your programs again. And Windows will recognize your computer as a brand new computer and won't accept the current activation key for your Windows10. You'll need to contact Microsoft and spend a lot of time on the phone to try to get them to allow your current activation to work on your new hard drive.

Better to move folders/files from you apparently filling up C: drive over to your D: drive. Is it really your D: drive? Doesn't your computer have a CD/DVD drive? Most computers have that as the D: drive, and any other HDDs have letters E: and further along the alphabet.

The big difference between a 32-bit version of a program and a 64-bit version of the same program has to do with the memory addressing capabilities (from what I understand about these things, which may not be completely valid). Unless you have a huge amount of RAM (much more than the typical 8GB or 12GB or 16GB of most current computers) you don't need all that extra addressing capability.


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Dean Naritoku
 

Assuming you installed 64 bit Windows 10, you will want to install the 64 bit version of BIAB. It will run much more efficiently.

On Jan 26, 2020, at 5:34 AM, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@comcast.net> wrote:
On 1/26/2020 4:46 AM, Don Jordan wrote:
Hi. I'd like some help here, please, if that's possible. I've been using BIAB for years and been very happy with it. I use it mainly to make backing tracks of band charts that I and other band members can play along with it we don't have a full rehearsal.
A couple of years ago I changed from Win 7 to Win 10 and I wish I hadn't, but it became too late to change back. I have two hard drives - C: for programs and D: for data and that worked OK while I was in charge, but Win 10 doesn't like it at all.
I find I now still have BIAB v.2008.5 as well as both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of BIAB 2020 on my PC, with files for v.2008.5 and 2020 spread over both C: and D: drives.
This is really difficult for me. What should I do? I'm going to have get a larger HDD for C: and forget about having two hard drives, as I think I'm going to have to succumb to Win 10's desperate desire to put everything where it wants it, rather than where I'm used to having it (I've been using PCs since they were first invented). This is going to make a lot of work for me in re-organising my whole file directory, but I think I have to bite the bullet.
Which version of BIAB 2020 should I keep - 32-bit or 64-bit? Can I uninstall v.2008.5 without harm occurring? Will I lose valuable files?
First off, I've had my C: drive for my programs and an E: drive for data for many many years and many many versions of Windows, currently Windows10 64-bit. Windows10 isn't any more bossy (or any less bossy) than any previous version of Windows I've ever used.

You just have to tell each program where you want it to store its data.

My current computer has a 1TB ssd for my C: drive and I have 4 other spinning hard drives in the computer case (E: F: G: H:) and I have various sorts of data and programs stored all over the place.

And for ease of backing my data up, I have all my data folders inside two Data folders on my E: drive, one marked Data for my wordprocessing and spreadsheet data, and one labeled Data - Music where all my music data files are stored. Then when I want to back things up, I simply create a new folder labeled "Backups 2020-01-26" [or whatever the date is that I do the backup] on an external hard drive and then drag both my Data and Data-Music as well as my main BB folders over to that new backup folder and all three main folders plus their subfolders get copied completely. After a few backups, I delete the older few, keeping my current backup folder and one previous one.

Since the SSD that is drive C: is so fast (with no moving parts) I have my main BB folder on my E: drive since I have so many styles and song files from over 20 years of using BIAB. I have a BB folder on my C: drive which is where I have the BIAB installation program place the real tracks and real drums files for quickest access. I install all my programs on the C: SSD drive for fastest access, too, but I go into the Settings or Preferences dialogs for each program and tell them where my Data or Data-Music folders are and have them place their data files there. Of course there are many subfolders insied my Data and Data-Music folders so all my data files remain organized.

So you don't need to get a huge C: drive and keep everything on that drive. You merely need to pay more attention when installing things and remember that you're the boss, *not* Windows.

As to whether you can uninstall BIAB2008.5 without losing things, that all depends on how you've installed BIAB2020. If they are in separate folders, as long as you have all the song files either in a separate folder completely or have copied them all over to your BIAB2020 directory you shouldn't lose anything.

If you keep installing each new version of BIAB into the same folder, then in my opinion there is no need to uninstall BIAB2018.5 since the actual program itself doesn't take up that much hard drive space. Most of the space is taken up by the styles and real tracks and real drums and the Demo folders (which you can safely delete if you don't want to listen to the demos).

I will say that buying a new larger HDD to be your C: drive is a royal pain in the butt because you'll have to reinstall Windows and all your programs again. And Windows will recognize your computer as a brand new computer and won't accept the current activation key for your Windows10. You'll need to contact Microsoft and spend a lot of time on the phone to try to get them to allow your current activation to work on your new hard drive.

Better to move folders/files from you apparently filling up C: drive over to your D: drive. Is it really your D: drive? Doesn't your computer have a CD/DVD drive? Most computers have that as the D: drive, and any other HDDs have letters E: and further along the alphabet.

The big difference between a 32-bit version of a program and a 64-bit version of the same program has to do with the memory addressing capabilities (from what I understand about these things, which may not be completely valid). Unless you have a huge amount of RAM (much more than the typical 8GB or 12GB or 16GB of most current computers) you don't need all that extra addressing capability.


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Jeff Miller
 

I would like to add that, from my experience, David is correct however many newer computers no longer have CD/DVD drives (D:) ... also I forgot to mention one little caveat to having external hard drives with any version of Windows and it's this: Windows likes to turn off external hard drives to save power. So if you're like me and leave your DAW running all the time you might think this is a good thing, shut off the screen and the drives and start them up when you touch the mouse or keyboard. Not so quick... since when Windows shuts down EXTERNAL drives you lose the drive letter configuration... so you may wiggle your mouse (with a BIAB session running from before) and BIAB will complain that the drive you have some styles on or perhaps MIDI files, RealTracks or whatever is part of your BIAB session no longer exists. Easy fix right? Just go into Windows power settings and tell Windows not to turn drives off to save power (yes, there's a setting for that) and you think it's good until the next time you 'wake' your computer to find the external drive doesn't exist again. The only way I've found to resolve this is by using a little program that runs in the background and keeps your drives "awake" and it works great. There are a few of these programs out there and here's one of them: http://m.majorgeeks.com/mg/get/prevent_disk_sleep,1.html

As for the difference between 32 and 64bit versions, it's a little more complex than just memory addressing capabilities, but that's the main reason why you may want to use 64bit if you have more than 4GB of RAM (and you should have more than 4GB of RAM.) There are other things to consider, which may or may not apply to you: For instance, I use ProTools HD 12.5 (or Ableton Live 10) and I run BIAB as well. I use some VSTs inside of BIAB as well as Garritan and Kontakt - and sometimes there's a 32 bit VST or another piece of software that doesn't want to get along with everything else and bridging doesn't help. So, I can then switch to 32bit everything and it works ok, but then I don't have the same access to all of my RAM. I used to have to do this regularly but anymore not so much. 64bit is becoming more and more ubiquitous and software is getting more and more friendly (plays well with others.) 

Jeff

 


David H. Bailey
 

On 1/26/2020 1:01 PM, Jeff Miller wrote:
I would like to add that, from my experience, David is correct however many newer computers no longer have CD/DVD drives (D:) ... also I forgot to mention one little caveat to having external hard drives with any version of Windows and it's this: Windows likes to turn off external hard drives to save power. So if you're like me and leave your DAW running all the time you might think this is a good thing, shut off the screen and the drives and start them up when you touch the mouse or keyboard. Not so quick... since when Windows shuts down EXTERNAL drives you lose the drive letter configuration... so you may wiggle your mouse (with a BIAB session running from before) and BIAB will complain that the drive you have some styles on or perhaps MIDI files, RealTracks or whatever is part of your BIAB session no longer exists. Easy fix right? Just go into Windows power settings and tell Windows not to turn drives off to save power (yes, there's a setting for that) and you think it's good until the next time you 'wake' your computer to find the external drive doesn't exist again. The only way I've found to resolve this is by using a little program that runs in the background and keeps your drives "awake" and it works great. There are a few of these programs out there and here's one of them: http://m.majorgeeks.com/mg/get/prevent_disk_sleep,1.html
[snip]

It is possible to assign permanent drive letters to each drive, so they don't keep changing when they power down and power back up.

To do this go to Control Panel, select Computer Management and the in the left-hand panel under Storage select Disk Management. Eventually all of a computer's drives which are currently attached and running, including external drives, are listed both in the top central panel and also in the panel below that which shows the partitions graphically.

Right-click on any of the listed hard drives which currently have a letter indicated, select
"Change Drive Letters And Paths."

In the dialog which opens up you can assign a specific drive letter to that drive which won't change, even if one of the drives isn't currently attached to the computer when you power up. If you assign K: (for example) to an external hard drive because you already have E: F: G: H: I: J: assigned to other drives and you power down and detach F: G: H: I: J: and then power up again, drive K: will still be K: even though those other letters are unused at the moment.

That makes it easier to organize things -- so if you have a particular high-speed disk which you dedicate only to audio projects your audio programs can be told in the preferences to locate its folders on drive K: then you can count on those programs always finding those files as long as that hard disk is attached, regardless of whether any others are attached or not.

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


roland.beaumont@...
 

Or just turn the power management fir the drives off in Windows under advanced power saving do add little bits of turd it destablises windows 


On 26 Jan 2020, at 18:01, Jeff Miller via Groups.Io <jeffreylmiller@...> wrote:



I would like to add that, from my experience, David is correct however many newer computers no longer have CD/DVD drives (D:) ... also I forgot to mention one little caveat to having external hard drives with any version of Windows and it's this: Windows likes to turn off external hard drives to save power. So if you're like me and leave your DAW running all the time you might think this is a good thing, shut off the screen and the drives and start them up when you touch the mouse or keyboard. Not so quick... since when Windows shuts down EXTERNAL drives you lose the drive letter configuration... so you may wiggle your mouse (with a BIAB session running from before) and BIAB will complain that the drive you have some styles on or perhaps MIDI files, RealTracks or whatever is part of your BIAB session no longer exists. Easy fix right? Just go into Windows power settings and tell Windows not to turn drives off to save power (yes, there's a setting for that) and you think it's good until the next time you 'wake' your computer to find the external drive doesn't exist again. The only way I've found to resolve this is by using a little program that runs in the background and keeps your drives "awake" and it works great. There are a few of these programs out there and here's one of them: http://m.majorgeeks.com/mg/get/prevent_disk_sleep,1.html

As for the difference between 32 and 64bit versions, it's a little more complex than just memory addressing capabilities, but that's the main reason why you may want to use 64bit if you have more than 4GB of RAM (and you should have more than 4GB of RAM.) There are other things to consider, which may or may not apply to you: For instance, I use ProTools HD 12.5 (or Ableton Live 10) and I run BIAB as well. I use some VSTs inside of BIAB as well as Garritan and Kontakt - and sometimes there's a 32 bit VST or another piece of software that doesn't want to get along with everything else and bridging doesn't help. So, I can then switch to 32bit everything and it works ok, but then I don't have the same access to all of my RAM. I used to have to do this regularly but anymore not so much. 64bit is becoming more and more ubiquitous and software is getting more and more friendly (plays well with others.) 

Jeff

 


Don Jordan
 

Thank you all very much for your feedback. I do appreciate it. There is so much in there that I don't quite know where to start or what particular aspect to address. I have a modest knowledge of PCs and their operation. I've been a professional civil engineer and university lecturer. I've been a trombone player most of my life (essentially self-taught). My most recent achievement was organising 76 trombone players to play a gig in Federation Square in Melbourne last month. I run and lead two brass groups and five jazz groups. I'm 81 and I've been retired from engineering for about 20 years. I play music now as much as I can. I've used BIAB for years to create backing tracks for practice and rehearsal purposes, but not for public performance. My practical knowledge of BIAB is limited to that. I'm primarily an acoustic musician and occasionally use a P.A., but I've not had anything to do with electronic music or electronically produced music.

My PC has two hard drives: C: is a Kingston SHSF 37A240G ATA device of 222 GB capacity; and D: is a WDC WD20EArs-00MVWB0 ATA device of 1.81 TB capacity. The E: drive is a DVD RW drive. I have an external HDD for backing-up to.

The processor is an Intel Pentium CPU @3.10 GHZ  3.30 GHZ (that's what it says), with installed memory RAM of 12.0 GB. System type 64 bit OS x64-based processor.

When I moved to Win 10 from Win 7 about 4 years ago, I bought the "Windows 10 for Dummies" book to help me learn the system and in communication with the author I found that he had no desire to change to Win 10 and was sticking to Win 7. I though that said something, and I could see his point. I can't get Win 10 to operate both C: and D: drives. For instance, it's automatic backing-up system ignores the D: drive, and only backs up the 3D Objects, Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Music, Pictures and Videos folders that it puts at the top of its 'This PC' list. The Dummies author couldn't suggest what to do to remedy this otherwise than use another system for backup.

On 9 January 2020 I bought BUPS-I Band-in-a-Box Pro Upgrade with RealBand and have mostly installed it (except for realtracks_pro_2 (to 5).exe (I think - sorry).

Disc C: contains the folders:

BB downloads/2020/ - which contains files loops02.exe and realtracks_pro_1(to 6).exe

Program files - containing Power Tracks DirectX Plugins 215MB created 9 Jan 2020.

RealBand - containing 297 MB of files created 9 Jan 2020

Disk D: contains the folders:

BB_Downloads - containing files 2020_0pak.exe; bandinabox_realband_2020_pro.exe; hiq_instruments_sforzando.exe; and loops02.exe.

Music - containing folder BIAB (created 16 Aug 2011) (131 MB) containing Band-in-a-BOX ROX!!!.htm; BIAB folders containing .MGU and .STY and other files from 2000 and earlier, and folders containing my band files

Music (old computer) - created same date as folder in Music (above) (112 MB) with similar contents. I think I goofed in trying to delete this folder and its contents, as Windows didn't seem to like me doing it, and now BIAB 2008.5 won't open.

Program files (x86) - containing BIAB folder of 420 MB created 5 March 2016 (shortly after I upgraded my PCs C: drive) which contains files to 2008 including the 2008 Manual.

There are two BIAB shortcut icons on my desktop for the 32-bit and 64-bit versions.

When I look in Control Panel - Programs and Features the only thing I can see there is Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin 2.2.8 (181 MB, 9 January 2020). I thought I saw an 'uninstall' folder in one of the lists of folders, but I can't find it again. Does BIAB allow you to uninstall from within the program? I assume it must, because nothing else is listed in Control Panel - Programs and Features.

Can I move all the BIAB folders and files from the C: drive to the D: drive, and are there any problems to look out for? How much of the old BIAB stuff on the D: drive can I delete/uninstall (and do I need to?). Can I use the 64-bit version of BIAB on this PC?

Thanks so much.