audio and BIAB


james mings
 

I have 3 options in audio settings: ASIO, MME, and WAS. I seem to experience chatter in each to varying degrees when recording audio into and out of BIAB. Also, audio is out of sync a good percentage of the time unless I freeze all tracks and that still can be out of sync. I am also experimenting with buffer size. A smaller size for recording and bigger for playback. This is a hassle. Is there a good compromise? When I change buffer sizes in BIAB does it affect buffer size in other programs? Is there a magic number? I realize that there are many better ways to record audio than BIAB, but it would sure be nice to get decent recordings while one is writing without having to drag files from program to program. Decent recordings happen sometimes. ;-) The stars have to be aligned... Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks,

Jim Mings


Media Production
 

Hi Jim--
 
What other programs are you using?  It would be good to share what programs you’re using and how it helps in your productions, and the style/genre  of music and why you chose those programs such as VSTI’s,  loops or others .  It also might be a lot better to bring everything into a DAW and use that as a master sync rather than trying to use BIAB as a master sync. 
 
I like using BIAB Real Track wav files uncompressed and bring those files into my DAW and use with Midi files, loops, stems and I’m using the best DAW for my productions—Presonus Studio One 3 Pro.  Once I bring in a file into my DAW, tempo, sync and formats are all easily integrated.  If you are not using a DAW, this might be a good time to upgrade your work flow and have much more creative media assets management and capability.
 
Rodger
 
 

Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 8:36 AM
Subject: [Band-in-a-Box] audio and BIAB
 
 

I have 3 options in audio settings: ASIO, MME, and WAS. I seem to experience chatter in each to varying degrees when recording audio into and out of BIAB. Also, audio is out of sync a good percentage of the time unless I freeze all tracks and that still can be out of sync. I am also experimenting with buffer size. A smaller size for recording and bigger for playback. This is a hassle. Is there a good compromise? When I change buffer sizes in BIAB does it affect buffer size in other programs? Is there a magic number? I realize that there are many better ways to record audio than BIAB, but it would sure be nice to get decent recordings while one is writing without having to drag files from program to program. Decent recordings happen sometimes. ;-) The stars have to be aligned... Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
 
Jim Mings


james mings
 

Hi Roger, I have Logic on a mac and Reaper on windows 10. I also use Sound Forge. I used Digital performer for many years with various tape machines. I like Focusrite Scarlett interfaces and have used a few others. I have Native Instruments, TR 5 from IK as well as Sample Tank, Aria, Garritan, Sforzando. I have collected a few plugins from Bias, Plugin Alliance, Waves, Melda, Arturia, and a few others. I love Sound Toys. I like to use drum loops and have found a lot of cool sounds at Loop Loft.  I like all kinds of music so i might do Jazz... or something else.
I did try and make specific questions about audio settings and Buffer size in BIAB.

Thanks,
Jim


David H. Bailey
 

On 5/24/2018 4:35 PM, Jim MIngs jmings2003@yahoo.com [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
Hi Roger, I have Logic on a mac and Reaper on windows 10. I also use Sound Forge. I used Digital performer for many years with various tape machines. I like Focusrite Scarlett interfaces and have used a few others. I have Native Instruments, TR 5 from IK as well as Sample Tank, Aria, Garritan, Sforzando. I have collected a few plugins from Bias, Plugin Alliance, Waves, Melda, Arturia, and a few others. I love Sound Toys. I like to use drum loops and have found a lot of cool sounds at Loop Loft.  I like all kinds of music so i might do Jazz... or something else.
I did try and make specific questions about audio settings and Buffer size in BIAB.
[snip]

It is my understanding that the buffer size as set in a program such as BIAB or Reaper or Sonar or any such are only for that particular program, and should have no effect on any other program. That should remain the buffer size for that particular program, though, until you change it.

The one situation where this may not be true is if you're using an ASIO driver such as Asio4All for all your programs. In that case you may set the buffer size in the Asio4All program and not specifically in BIAB. I believe that once you set that buffer size in Asio4All (or any other Asio driver) it will remain at that size until/unless you change it again.

At least that is my understanding and has been my experience as I remember it.

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


D F Tweedie
 

Hi Jim ...

You don't mention whether you have an interface or are using the computer's onboard audio devices. This can make a big difference for recording latency, i.e., the delay between playing or singing into your mic and then hearing the audio back after it is processed through any program.

One big advantage of an interface in addition to dedicated drivers permitting lower buffer sizes is that many have a feature that lets you hear your audio back after your preamp section but before it is processed by the computer/ program, thereby reducing latency to insignificant amounts.

Coming back to your question, ASIO is almost always the preferred device with any program that can utilize it.

The buffer size is tied to the audio driver. When you change buffer size "in a program," you are not really changing it in the program. More precisely, you are changing it 'through the program' accessing the driver's software applet. So yes, if it is changed it is changed for all applications until the next time you change it regardless of which programs you load in the meantime.

On the other hand changing a device's buffer size, as opposed to changing devices, is trivial. Even professional studios do it regularly when the alternate between recording (lowest buffer size available) and mixing (buffer size as large as you need to lower CPU demand on hungry plugins). The glitching sounds you hear are almost always the result of the buffer emptying faster than the CPU can process the audio.

And yes, the best practice is to change your buffer size depending upon what you are doing.

You probably notice the lag in BIAB when 'rendering' new RealTracks. However, once rendered, playback is relatively seamless and should proceed at the lowest buffer setting you can manage for recording purposes.

If BIAB isn't up to the task you can always export the RealTrack audio and import it into Logic and record in that program. For most purposes I can think of that would be superior to recording in BIAB.

In general it is plugins and especially virtual instruments (VSTIs) that place large demand on CPU and require large buffer size. Playing back pre-recorded audio and recording one input at a time should work fine under the lowest buffer setting your audio device permits.

Good luck.

DF





From: "Jim MIngs jmings2003@... [Band-in-a-Box]"
To: Band-in-a-Box
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 8:50 AM
Subject: [Band-in-a-Box] audio and BIAB

 
I have 3 options in audio settings: ASIO, MME, and WAS. I seem to experience chatter in each to varying degrees when recording audio into and out of BIAB. Also, audio is out of sync a good percentage of the time unless I freeze all tracks and that still can be out of sync. I am also experimenting with buffer size. A smaller size for recording and bigger for playback. This is a hassle. Is there a good compromise? When I change buffer sizes in BIAB does it affect buffer size in other programs? Is there a magic number? I realize that there are many better ways to record audio than BIAB, but it would sure be nice to get decent recordings while one is writing without having to drag files from program to program. Decent recordings happen sometimes. ;-) The stars have to be aligned... Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks,

Jim Mings



james mings
 

DF:
"One big advantage of an interface in addition to dedicated drivers permitting lower buffer sizes is that many have a feature that lets you hear your audio back after your preamp section but before it is processed by the computer/ program, thereby reducing latency to insignificant amounts.

Coming back to your question, ASIO is almost always the preferred device with any program that can utilize it.

The buffer size is tied to the audio driver. When you change buffer size "in a program," you are not really changing it in the program. More precisely, you are changing it 'through the program' accessing the driver's software applet. So yes, if it is changed it is changed for all applications until the next time you change it regardless of which programs you load in the meantime.

On the other hand changing a device's buffer size, as opposed to changing devices, is trivial. Even professional studios do it regularly when the alternate between recording (lowest buffer size available) and mixing (buffer size as large as you need to lower CPU demand on hungry plugins). The glitching sounds you hear are almost always the result of the buffer emptying faster than the CPU can process the audio.

And yes, the best practice is to change your buffer size depending upon what you are doing.

You probably notice the lag in BIAB when 'rendering' new RealTracks. However, once rendered, playback is relatively seamless and should proceed at the lowest buffer setting you can manage for recording purposes.

If BIAB isn't up to the task you can always export the RealTrack audio and import it into Logic and record in that program. For most purposes I can think of that would be superior to recording in BIAB.

In general it is plugins and especially virtual instruments (VSTIs) that place large demand on CPU and require large buffer size. Playing back pre-recorded audio and recording one input at a time should work fine under the lowest buffer setting your audio device permits.

Good luck.

DF"

That's so helpful, DF.  I really appreciate the time and effort it took to help me. And, you put it in just the right words. iou3! 

PS:
If BIAB isn't up to the task you can always export the RealTrack audio and import it into Logic and record in that program. For most purposes I can think of that would be superior to recording in BIAB.

Of course. The thing is that when i write with BIAB I like to play on guitar so I can hear if certain moves sound and play naturally. I might catch something fresh. Once i get the form as good as I can I go to Logic or Reaper. I like real Tracks a lot, but I also love midi and like to have that as well. 
Thanks again



Jim


D F Tweedie
 

One last thought for recording: you can always first render your MIDI to audio and then remove or disable your Virtual Instruments to reduce the CPU load and permit a lower buffer.

DF



From: "Jim MIngs jmings2003@... [Band-in-a-Box]"
To: band-in-a-box@...
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Band-in-a-Box] audio and BIAB

 
DF:
"One big advantage of an interface in addition to dedicated drivers permitting lower buffer sizes is that many have a feature that lets you hear your audio back after your preamp section but before it is processed by the computer/ program, thereby reducing latency to insignificant amounts.

Coming back to your question, ASIO is almost always the preferred device with any program that can utilize it.

The buffer size is tied to the audio driver. When you change buffer size "in a program," you are not really changing it in the program. More precisely, you are changing it 'through the program' accessing the driver's software applet. So yes, if it is changed it is changed for all applications until the next time you change it regardless of which programs you load in the meantime.

On the other hand changing a device's buffer size, as opposed to changing devices, is trivial. Even professional studios do it regularly when the alternate between recording (lowest buffer size available) and mixing (buffer size as large as you need to lower CPU demand on hungry plugins). The glitching sounds you hear are almost always the result of the buffer emptying faster than the CPU can process the audio.

And yes, the best practice is to change your buffer size depending upon what you are doing.

You probably notice the lag in BIAB when 'rendering' new RealTracks. However, once rendered, playback is relatively seamless and should proceed at the lowest buffer setting you can manage for recording purposes.

If BIAB isn't up to the task you can always export the RealTrack audio and import it into Logic and record in that program. For most purposes I can think of that would be superior to recording in BIAB.

In general it is plugins and especially virtual instruments (VSTIs) that place large demand on CPU and require large buffer size. Playing back pre-recorded audio and recording one input at a time should work fine under the lowest buffer setting your audio device permits.

Good luck.

DF"

That's so helpful, DF.  I really appreciate the time and effort it took to help me. And, you put it in just the right words. iou3! 

PS:
If BIAB isn't up to the task you can always export the RealTrack audio and import it into Logic and record in that program. For most purposes I can think of that would be superior to recording in BIAB.

Of course. The thing is that when i write with BIAB I like to play on guitar so I can hear if certain moves sound and play naturally. I might catch something fresh. Once i get the form as good as I can I go to Logic or Reaper. I like real Tracks a lot, but I also love midi and like to have that as well. 
Thanks again



Jim