Need Help Recording Audio


j.p.
 

I am trying to record an audio track over a BIAB song (I am using BIAB 2007 version).

The audio track records, but when I play it back, it is about 1/2 second out of sync with BIAB midi file being played.

Anyone know how to fix this?


D F Tweedie
 

This is because of the latency ... or delay time ... in most audio drivers. Unless you are using ASIO drivers, there will be a significant delay between when you hit 'play' and when the audio actually starts appearing (odd choice of word!) out of your speakers due to the filling up of the audio buffers prior to the processing of the digital audio bits..

Later when you play the recorded audio back, it is then out of sync with the rest of the audio. There may be a way in BIAB to compensate/ adjust something, but I don't know.

A simple solution ... if you're have Real Band or some other audio program, is to render all the BIAB song to audio, transfer this and your vocal performance into separate tracks and then 'slide' one track until it matches the other.

You can can also download a free program called ASIO4All (just google it) which will give you a choice of using an ASIO driver for your audio in BIAB. Some folks have excellent results with ASIO drivers, which generally come with the purchase of audio interface hardware as specifically designed for that equipment. Some, myself included, have had no love trying to use my ASIO drivers in BIAB. I would be near suicidal were it not for the fact that I have other audio programs that love my ASIO drivers and I can simply export my BIAB song as a midi file and use it in my regular sequencer.

Good luck.

DF



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Gary Thompson
 

Orb ...
In BIAB go to menu Opt>Midi/Audio Driver setup. The latency will be displayed - probably around 500ms. This means that your midi is delayed by that much due to driver latency.

You need to consider using a faster midi driver.

--
I guess if you wait long enough, some things go right.
--Greg Goodchild


j.p.
 

Thanks for the advise--

Was tweaking away all night without much results. My version of BiaB has the ASIO drivers and I also downloaded the ASIO4ALL drivers and I'm still working away with that.

Rendering the BIAB MIDI file to audio seems like it sort of defeats the purpose of BIAB altogether, but I guess I haven't much choice in the matter...

Wondering if an upgrade to a more recent version of BIAB would help but I would prefer to save the $$ if at all possible...


D F Tweedie
 

There are some problems with ASIO even in the latest versions. What version do you have? Do you have Real Band or any other sequencer/ daw program?

If you don't you should take a look at Reaper. Just google "Cockos Reaper." It is a very sophisticated program that you can download and use a totally uncrippled, untime-limited version. They only aske that after 60 days you pay $60.00 on the honor system. It is without question the best deal out there.

For current discussion of BIAB and ASIO issues, see the link below.

http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=264174&an=0&page=0#Post264174

I don't think it defeats the purpose. BIAB's strength is as an auto arrangement tool. It's added a lot of little bells and whistles on to that basic idea ... but almost all of them, including working with midi, can be done better in other programs.
Remember, when you are listening to a BIAB song, you are really just listening to midi. BIAB has a proprietary file system, but underlying that is midi.

DF


j.p.
 

DF-

I am using version 1.7.0.5 of ASIO.

Interestingly, if I open ASIO outside of BIAB, the Audio-System-Test fails.

I can pass the test if I run it within BIAB, but I still get the latency problem.

Go figure.

Thanks for the link to the PG Music Forum although it is getting depressing reading through all these problems people are having trying to overcome the latency issue.

I will keep plugging away though.

I have an old version of Cakewalk which I fire up on occasion.

I don't own a MIDI instrument so I use BIAB as an accompaniment tool and it has been real easy to use... until I tried recording with it.

I will definitely try Reaper though and thanks for recommending it.

In the meantime my dream of using BIAB to record is turning into a nightmare...

Since I don't use a MIDI instrument I haven't a need for another program other than BIAB but at this point I'm willing try anything to be able to record in sync without headaches which I have plenty of already.

Thanks for the help...

Orbs


D F Tweedie
 

Hmmm ... when you note the version of ASIO ... you don't say whose it is. Is this left over from your Cakewalk? Or is it ASIO4All? The later is free and is somewhere in version 3, I believe. In the options setting boxes when you choose and ASIO driver, it will tell you the name ... although there are some generic windows ones that just have a descriptive name like 'Full Duplex" or something like that.

I don't want this to sound condescending ... but since on these forums you seldom know the other persons knowledge base ... don't confuse midi with midi hardware. You are using midi in BIAB, whether with the settings to use the system softsynth or if you have elected to use the VSC or some other softsynth in the options set up panel. I say this because BIAB is simply sending midi notes to those instruments. If you pulled the midi file, once you were happy with it, out of BIAB and imported it to Cakewalk ( or Reaper or any DAW) you would be doing the exact same thing as you are doing in BIAB ... using midi tracks to trigger a softsynth. Except! Now, depending on the horsepower of your computer, you could have more control over the midi and the lower latency you'd require to sing along as the song plays and record with it staying in sync.

Best of luck.

DF


j.p.
 

DF-

I honestly don't know where I got the ASIO drivers from...I thought they came with BIAB because it showed up as an option. But it definitely wasn't from ASio4All because I downloaded ASiO4All after i encountered the latency problem.

BTW, last night i think I resolved one part of the issue by adjusting the buffer size in the ASIO driver control panel from within BiAB (finally figured out how to do that). That resolved the delay occurring when playing guitar through the computer.

Although this now allows me to accurately record audio over the BIAB midi track, the audio track still lays down about a sixteenth beat later than it should.

So at this point I need to 'nudge' the audio track a sixteenth note earlier in order for it to be in sync, either by timeshifting the audio in BIAB (which doesn't seem to work) or shooting to another program.

Don't worry about condescension...I have no illusions of being knowledgable about any of this stuff so feel free to offer any and all information you have. It is appreciated.


Orbs


lady_jazzer2 <colomtnwoman@...>
 

I was about to ask you if you knew whether or not it was compatible with 64-bit Windows7, then I decided to just go to their website, and there is a new version 2.10-BETA that is supposed to fix things for 64bit/Win7 operation.

www.asio4all.com : Version 2.10 Beta 1

I'm going to give it a try and see how it works...

LJ


D F Tweedie
 

OK ... you've come along way.

BTW ... the crazy little trick of not hitting the 'OK' button that is mentioned in the link to the post on ASIO in the forum link I sent to you worked for me!

As far as the 1/16 th lag goes ... keep trying to set the buffer a little bit lower at a time. You should be able to have it run at at least 512 bits, which is about a 12 msec delay and should be almost undetectable ... 256 is better! This of course will depend on the power of your computer. Try to 'strip' your computer down to the bare bones when using it for music by making sure all 'back ground' programs like virus checkers, things in the 'sys' tray, other programs in the background, etc. are closed.

You haven't mentioned your Operating System or whether you have an audio interface. If you are on XP there are a lot of resources on the web to help you optimize operating systems.

Finally, if you want a real fast track crash course on digital audio and the home studio go to tweakheadz.com and look at the tutorials. While the guy flogs gear for ZZounds, his information is comprehensive and stellar.

DF

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Chris Huey
 

I don't know if this will help or not but some sound cards support a "Record What You Hear" function. Perhaps that might be a solution...

Chris


D F Tweedie
 

Good point, Chris. It's usually called 'direct monitoring.' This is generally only available when you have an audio interface that supports it ... no regular built in sound cards do this as far as I know.

I also have a vague memory that your software also has to be able to have a setting to take advantage of this function in order for what you are recording to have a delay added that is in sync with the latency of the played back audio. Remember, the problem here is not singing in sync to the music, but having the music recorded so that it will still be in sync on playback. This is of course a slightly different issue than the latency that would occur were you playing a softsynth on a midi keyboard.

DF

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j.p.
 

DF

OK This morning I resolved the problem via an online chat with PG Music.

Apparently the syncing problem I was having was due to the fact that I wasn't using the VSC DXi soft synth.

Like I said I'm pretty clueless about all this stuff but the bottom line is the thing is working like it is supposed to be and I couldn't be happier.

I did learn a lot about how this stuff works in the process, though, and I am grateful to you and the others in this group who have offered help and suggestions which enabled me to learn more.

And thanks for the link to tweakhedz.com. I need all the help I can get!!

One of the things I found out is that if you are using 64-bit Windows you may have the same syncing problem I was having but you would be out of luck because apparently the VST DXi soft synth won't work with 64-bit Windows.

Basically, this means if you're using 64-bit Windows operating system you wouldn't be able to sync the audio to MIDI in BIAB without buying a $40 add-on called ForteDXi and even then it might not work.

Boy am I glad I have 32-bit Windows!!

(Still don't know what the heck that is, but hey, the thing works and that's all that is matters for me right now).