Topics

New poll for Band-in-a-Box


Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

At 09:08 AM 2/16/01 +0000, jonathanreed@lycos.com wrote:

By the way, Bob (Norton) if PG Music ran their business like you run
yours they would go up a peg or two on my rating scale. I purchased a
few styles a few years back and sent a few people your way also.
Everyone always had good things to say about dealing with you and you
have always been quick to respond.
Thanks. That is good to hear and it was very kind of you to post it.

I try my best. I figure the best way to run a business is to think like a
customer.

And I won't abandon the Mac users unless they abandon me ;-)


- - - - - - - - -
Bob "Notes" Norton
owner, Norton Music
norton@nortonmusic.com
http://www.nortonmusic.com

Norton Music is the #1 producer of BiaB after-market products in the world!
Featuring Power User Styles, Fake Disks, and Arangement Disks.
PLUS ... PG Music products at up to 20% off ... FREE Midi Files ... links
to MIDI file search pages ... download and print sheet music directly from
the web ... a few jokes to brighten your day ... and more.


jonathanreed@...
 

Hi all its me again.

I was going to answer the Reed rant but Norton did it quite
expertly.>

All I can say is its just my opinion and as a "customer" all I really
want is for my "supplier" to communicate their intentions to me!
That's why I always register when I purchase a product. How much
trouble would it have been for PG music to send out an email to all
registered users? They didn't send any notice until we (mac users)
kept posting on their site. Then they answered with a "its in the
works". A lack of communication like this is one of the main reasons
your customer base will decline, after all we are talking about
over two years here. They (your customer) simply will go somewhere
else.

I agree its not a PC Vs Mac thing and I never intended it to be other
then to give the example of how a "customer" feels when there is no
communication at all from his "supplier".

BAIB 8 will serve me perfectly well for what I need it for and it will
be the last version I will buy however if by chance I do purchase a
newer version (which is unlikely but you never should say never) it
would be the PC version and I will run it under my "Softwindows 95"
which is how I run Acid Pro now.

You all have expressed your opinions very well and I respect them.

By the way, Bob (Norton) if PG Music ran their business like you run
yours they would go up a peg or two on my rating scale. I purchased a
few styles a few years back and sent a few people your way also.
Everyone always had good things to say about dealing with you and you
have always been quick to respond.

After all is said and done its all about making music and how many
little things added to a program sometimes just get in the way of
creativity.

Time to go back to work. :-)

Thanks,

Jon


Kenny Danielson <kendan@...>
 

I was going to answer the Reed rant but Norton did it quite expertly.

A point not emphasized enough is that it isn't a Mac vs. PC thing but
an OS thing. My OS was Windows NT4 but I had to make a dual boot
system for the audio stuff that was originally written for Mac and then
grudgingly adapted for Windows95. Mac is a good machine for media
types and you may remember when it was that they got all the attention
while the PC's had to settle for imperfectly adapted software or none
at all. Even now, my PC must dual boot W2K and W98 to use current
audio programs (originally Mac) that have not yet been updated.

The common advice in 1978, when I bought my first computer, was to
chose the software and then get a computer that would run it. Still true
today, unfortunately. It is really amazing that any software is written
for Mac these days, given the small population of users.

Norton's point about piracy is right on. If you want to see more output
from your favorite authors then support them. Keep pirating and they
will disappear forever.

Mac is a superior system for some things but keep in mind that market
forces dictate so don't take it personally if the consensus is contrary to
your desires and if you insist on championing a lost cause, you are quite
likely to be endlessly frustrated.

Kenny

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob 'Notes' Norton" <norton@nortonmusic.com>
To: <Band-in-a-Box@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Band-in-a-Box] Re: New poll for Band-in-a-Box


At 07:30 AM 2/15/01 +0000, jonathanreed@lycos.com wrote:
You raise some very good points.

I have been a registered user for about 8 years (Atari day's).
I first bough BiaB for the Atari on version 3, waaaaaaaay back in the 80s.
Unfortunately, the Atari became an orphan because not enough people bought
software for it, if you can't make profit on the software, nobody will
write it, and the platform will die. The Amiga is another example. A fine
computer that died of a small user base.

[SNIP] They charged me as a Mac
user the same price and do not provide the same service as the PC
side.
Some software manufacturers charge more for the Mac to try to make a
profit.

If they are not going to provide equal customer service for their
product all they need to do is let me know and I will take my business
elsewhere. After all that is the best way to get your message across.
Actually, that is the surest way to keep from ever having an update for
the
Mac.

*** I too have a Mac (and a PC), so allow me to play "THE DEVIL'S
ADVOCATE"
here. ***

The problem with the Mac platform is neither the hardware nor the OS, it
is
the small user base.

When I started writing styles for Band-in-a-Box, Mac was 25% of my market,
now it is less than 5%. Since music is one of the strongholds of the Mac
user base, it stands to reason that the rest of the industry shows similar
depressing numbers.

BTW, I dropped Atari support when it shrunk to under 1% or my sales.

Now suppose you were a software writer and you decide to spend a few
thousand hours writing software. You spend those writing for PC and Mac.
The PC platform returns almost $20.00 for every $1.00 that you see from
the
Mac platform. So you make almost 20 times the hourly wage writing for the
PC. It's a no brainer which you write for first.

Now it is time to invest a few thousand hours in an update. The natural
thing to do is to write for the PC and upgrade it first. You will get
almost 20 times the return for each hour spent.

OK, you spent almost a year on that and it sold well, but you need cash
flow to run this business so what are you going to do? Write another for
the PC or the Mac?

It is unfortunately a fact of life.

If you knew investing in one stock on wall street would return 20 times
the
value of another, which would you invest in?

To add insult to injury, I quit a Mac user's group because all they wanted
to do was swap stories and pirate software. If one person bought Page
Maker, they all had Page Maker. If one bought Illustrator, the all had
Illustrator. I doubt if all users groups are like this, but this
definitely
is one way to make sure you will be using a Windows computer in a few
years. Software is very time consuming to write and without a decent
return
on the investment, what's the use?

My advice to myself and all the other Mac users out there. Buy software,
and buy it often and buy a lot of it. Buy it whether you need it or not.
Never ever give it away. Instead of upgrading your Mac, upgrade your
software first. The only way to keep the Mac platform alive is by
supporting the Mac software industry. (You can start by purchasing all of
my after-market style disks and fake disks <grin>)

If the people who write software cannot make a decent profit for their
time
by writing for the Mac, it will go the way of the Atari and the Amiga.

Once again, I have no axe to grind, I like my Mac and I like my PC. I like
some things about the Mac better, and I like some things about the PC
better. It is comparing apples and oranges (sorry, I couldn't resist).
However, if the Mac user base drops to less than 1% of my user base, I
won't be able to afford to write for it anymore. At at 1%, I'll stick it
out longer than most people. PG seems to be cutting back at about 5%.

In summary, Mac users must show their numbers with their dollars if we
don't want our Macs to be orphans.

OK, I'm done playing "devil's advocate" and return you to your regularly
scheduled BiaB group.


- - - - - - - - -
Bob "Notes" Norton
owner, Norton Music
norton@nortonmusic.com
http://www.nortonmusic.com

Norton Music is the #1 producer of BiaB after-market products in the
world!
Featuring Power User Styles, Fake Disks, and Arangement Disks.
PLUS ... PG Music products at up to 20% off ... FREE Midi Files ... links
to MIDI file search pages ... download and print sheet music directly from
the web ... a few jokes to brighten your day ... and more.


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Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

At 07:30 AM 2/15/01 +0000, jonathanreed@lycos.com wrote:
You raise some very good points.

I have been a registered user for about 8 years (Atari day's).
I first bough BiaB for the Atari on version 3, waaaaaaaay back in the 80s.
Unfortunately, the Atari became an orphan because not enough people bought
software for it, if you can't make profit on the software, nobody will
write it, and the platform will die. The Amiga is another example. A fine
computer that died of a small user base.

[SNIP] They charged me as a Mac
user the same price and do not provide the same service as the PC
side.
Some software manufacturers charge more for the Mac to try to make a profit.

If they are not going to provide equal customer service for their
product all they need to do is let me know and I will take my business
elsewhere. After all that is the best way to get your message across.
Actually, that is the surest way to keep from ever having an update for the
Mac.

*** I too have a Mac (and a PC), so allow me to play "THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"
here. ***

The problem with the Mac platform is neither the hardware nor the OS, it is
the small user base.

When I started writing styles for Band-in-a-Box, Mac was 25% of my market,
now it is less than 5%. Since music is one of the strongholds of the Mac
user base, it stands to reason that the rest of the industry shows similar
depressing numbers.

BTW, I dropped Atari support when it shrunk to under 1% or my sales.

Now suppose you were a software writer and you decide to spend a few
thousand hours writing software. You spend those writing for PC and Mac.
The PC platform returns almost $20.00 for every $1.00 that you see from the
Mac platform. So you make almost 20 times the hourly wage writing for the
PC. It's a no brainer which you write for first.

Now it is time to invest a few thousand hours in an update. The natural
thing to do is to write for the PC and upgrade it first. You will get
almost 20 times the return for each hour spent.

OK, you spent almost a year on that and it sold well, but you need cash
flow to run this business so what are you going to do? Write another for
the PC or the Mac?

It is unfortunately a fact of life.

If you knew investing in one stock on wall street would return 20 times the
value of another, which would you invest in?

To add insult to injury, I quit a Mac user's group because all they wanted
to do was swap stories and pirate software. If one person bought Page
Maker, they all had Page Maker. If one bought Illustrator, the all had
Illustrator. I doubt if all users groups are like this, but this definitely
is one way to make sure you will be using a Windows computer in a few
years. Software is very time consuming to write and without a decent return
on the investment, what's the use?

My advice to myself and all the other Mac users out there. Buy software,
and buy it often and buy a lot of it. Buy it whether you need it or not.
Never ever give it away. Instead of upgrading your Mac, upgrade your
software first. The only way to keep the Mac platform alive is by
supporting the Mac software industry. (You can start by purchasing all of
my after-market style disks and fake disks <grin>)

If the people who write software cannot make a decent profit for their time
by writing for the Mac, it will go the way of the Atari and the Amiga.

Once again, I have no axe to grind, I like my Mac and I like my PC. I like
some things about the Mac better, and I like some things about the PC
better. It is comparing apples and oranges (sorry, I couldn't resist).
However, if the Mac user base drops to less than 1% of my user base, I
won't be able to afford to write for it anymore. At at 1%, I'll stick it
out longer than most people. PG seems to be cutting back at about 5%.

In summary, Mac users must show their numbers with their dollars if we
don't want our Macs to be orphans.

OK, I'm done playing "devil's advocate" and return you to your regularly
scheduled BiaB group.


- - - - - - - - -
Bob "Notes" Norton
owner, Norton Music
norton@nortonmusic.com
http://www.nortonmusic.com

Norton Music is the #1 producer of BiaB after-market products in the world!
Featuring Power User Styles, Fake Disks, and Arangement Disks.
PLUS ... PG Music products at up to 20% off ... FREE Midi Files ... links
to MIDI file search pages ... download and print sheet music directly from
the web ... a few jokes to brighten your day ... and more.


jonathanreed@...
 

Hi,

As a warning to all, I am now on my soap box. :-)

In regards to taking a poll to see if a manufacturer (PG Music) of a
product (BIAB) should support its users/customers.

As the guy on TV say's "Give me a Break!"

The biggest complaint (and I have quite a few about PG music) that I
have with PG music is there has not been any comunication from them in
regards to upgrades. Its been over two years! They charged me as a Mac
user the same price and do not provide the same service as the PC
side.

If they are not going to provide equal customer service for their
product all they need to do is let me know and I will take my business
elsewhere. After all that is the best way to get your message across.

So let me ask this. If the rolls were reversed and the PC version
lagged behind the Mac version, how would you all feel about PG music?

I have been a registered user for about 8 years (Atari day's). In that
time the only comunication I have received from PG music is an answer
to my feedback on their website about this very subject and even then
it took them a few weeks. Its to bad there isn't any other program
like this since competion would bring better service.

I am off the soapbox now.


Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

Bob "Notes" Norton said:
You can get Password Pro at many shareware sites or by going to
http://cmbsoftware.com/ and downloading it. I think the registration was
only $9.95 (paid it a long time ago, so it might have changed) and in you
want, you can password protect your password file. Then you can call up the
password file and use it to recall your various passwords and user names.
I am sure there are other shareware programs out there that also do the
same thing.
Richard Whitehouse responded:
Well, maybe so, but IMHO, it's just too much trouble. The way I see it,
if someone wants me to vote on a poll, I'm doing them a favour by going
there and voting, so they should make it as easy for me as possible.
And "Notes" adds.

I vote in the polls using the same password that I sign in with. I needed
the password to join the group, saved it in Password Pro, and when voting
time came around, I opened password pro, signed in and voted.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can join this group without
registering a user name and password, and if you remember that name and
password, you can vote in the polls, post and do other things you cannot do
without entering the name and password.

Although a slight hassle, signing in with your group name and password does
benefit us in one way. Only group members are allowed to post, upload and
vote. That keeps the spammers away. One trip to the
alt.binaries.band.in.a.box usenet (newsgroup) group will illustrate what I
mean. For every post about Band-in-a-Box there are usually up to a dozen
posts about getting rich quick (it's legal, really), come see my xxx
pictures, refinance your house at zero percent interest, erase your bad
credit, find out anything about anybody, etc. You have all read the
subjects (and hopefully not opened the spam, it only encourages them when
you respond).

I also noticed that by using your user name and password, you can only vote
once. Since I use a Mac and a PC, I tried to enter both in the poll, and
the software wouldn't let me do that. I clicked Mac, then PC and instead of
adding another vote, it just changed my vote. So by using your name and
password, it keeps an unscrupulous person from "stuffing the ballot box" --
no hanging chads here ;-)

So although having to sign in with your already chosen user name and
password (you cannot post without it) may be a bit of a hassle, IMO it
provides two very useful functions. I would rather type in that name and
password than read a bunch of inappropriate spam posts or look at a poll
that has been stuffed to the point of such inaccuracy that it is not valid.

Just my .00000000002ยข worth




- - - - - - - - -
Bob "Notes" Norton
owner, Norton Music
norton@nortonmusic.com
http://www.nortonmusic.com

Norton Music is the #1 producer of BiaB after-market products in the world!
Featuring Power User Styles, Fake Disks, and Arangement Disks.
PLUS ... PG Music products at up to 20% off ... FREE Midi Files ... links
to MIDI file search pages ... download and print sheet music directly from
the web ... a few jokes to brighten your day ... and more.


Richard Whitehouse <rsw@...>
 

Well, maybe so, but IMHO, it's just too much trouble. The way I see it,
if someone wants me to vote on a poll, I'm doing them a favour by going
there and voting, so they should make it as easy for me as possible.

You can get Password Pro at many shareware sites or by going to
http://cmbsoftware.com/ and downloading it. I think the registration was
only $9.95 (paid it a long time ago, so it might have changed) and in you
want, you can password protect your password file. Then you can call up the
password file and use it to recall your various passwords and user names.
I am sure there are other shareware programs out there that also do the
same thing.


Tom Speer <rrcp@...>
 

I went there and tried to vote, but the site wanted me to "join". What is
with this current mania for making people join web pages all over the
place? I have way too many usernames and passwords to keep track of
allready.

My policy is, if the site wants me to 'sign up', or 'join', I'm gone.

Richard


Tom Speer replies:
I absolutely agree ! I get enough spam without signing up with another
source.

Tom


Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

At 01:07 PM 2/13/01 +0000, you wrote:

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Band-in-a-Box group:

Do you use Band-in-a-Box for PC or
Apple Macintosh?

o PC
o Apple Mac
If I use both, how do I enter that, or should I refrain from voting?


- - - - - - - - -
Bob "Notes" Norton
owner, Norton Music
norton@nortonmusic.com
http://www.nortonmusic.com

Norton Music is the #1 producer of BiaB after-market products in the world!
Featuring Power User Styles, Fake Disks, and Arangement Disks.
PLUS ... PG Music products at up to 20% off ... FREE Midi Files ... links
to MIDI file search pages ... download and print sheet music directly from
the web ... a few jokes to brighten your day ... and more.


Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

At 08:16 AM 2/13/01 -0500, Richard Whitehouse <rsw@accessv.com> wrote:
To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Band-in-a-Box/polls
I went there and tried to vote, but the site wanted me to "join". What is
with this current mania for making people join web pages all over the
place? I have way too many usernames and passwords to keep track of allready.

My policy is, if the site wants me to 'sign up', or 'join', I'm gone.
One good reason for making you join before you can participate, is to keep
the spammers and other "outsiders" out of the group.

You can get Password Pro at many shareware sites or by going to
http://cmbsoftware.com/ and downloading it. I think the registration was
only $9.95 (paid it a long time ago, so it might have changed) and in you
want, you can password protect your password file. Then you can call up the
password file and use it to recall your various passwords and user names.

I am sure there are other shareware programs out there that also do the
same thing.


- - - - - - - - -
Bob "Notes" Norton
owner, Norton Music
norton@nortonmusic.com
http://www.nortonmusic.com

Norton Music is the #1 producer of BiaB after-market products in the world!
Featuring Power User Styles, Fake Disks, and Arangement Disks.
PLUS ... PG Music products at up to 20% off ... FREE Midi Files ... links
to MIDI file search pages ... download and print sheet music directly from
the web ... a few jokes to brighten your day ... and more.


Joe Befumo <jbefumo@...>
 

I went there and tried to vote, but the site wanted me to "join".
What is
with this current mania for making people join web pages all over the
place? I have way too many usernames and passwords to keep track
of allready.
Oh, that's easy:

1) They sell your name and email to the spammongers who persist in filling
your mailbox, and
2) They use the size of their registered user base to attract advertisers
who fill your screen with annoying popup boxes.


Richard Whitehouse <rsw@...>
 

To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Band-in-a-Box/polls
I went there and tried to vote, but the site wanted me to "join". What is
with this current mania for making people join web pages all over the
place? I have way too many usernames and passwords to keep track of allready.

My policy is, if the site wants me to 'sign up', or 'join', I'm gone.

Richard


Band-in-a-Box@...
 

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
Band-in-a-Box group:

Do you use Band-in-a-Box for PC or
Apple Macintosh?

o PC
o Apple Mac


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Band-in-a-Box/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms