Date   

Re: Question on files

alisdair@...
 

Hi Robert

The question of copyright has become a very difficult issue with
regard to Band-in-a-Box files. This is my basic understanding of the
issues involved.

Before the advent of the computer when a tune was copyrighted it was
the melody which copyrighted, the underlying harmony was not
copyright. The print copy of the melody was used to copyright the
tune. Hence lots of Jazz musicians, took tunes they knew such
as "Back Home Again In Indiana" and wrote a new melody line to the
same harmony, a so called contrafract, such as "Donna Lee" or "Ice
Freezes Red". They then could copyright the new melody.

With the advent of computers the issue has become less clear. The
problem resides in whether the file is used for commercial purposes.
The copyright law has a provision called Fair Use. Under the "fair
use" provision of U.S. copyright law, a transcriber/arranger may not
publish or distribute material protected by copyright but may provide
a single copy for educational purposes, such as helping a student
master the performance of a composition, or providing in-text
illustrations in a research paper or thesis. So distributing a Band
In a Box file with chords and melody (a single copy) for educational
purposes with no financial transactions involved, i.e. no commercial
gain should be allowed. Conversly, distributing BIAB files of
copyright songs with chords and melody for financial gain requires
the owners of the copyrights permission.

Hence anyone who is selling BIAB files out there is either selling
just the Chords with no melody, which requires no permission, or with
melody, which requires permission. If no permission has been sought
and granted for a BIAB file with Chords and Melody then the
transaction is illegal.

As you know to download any files from this site requires membership.
All files on this site are for educational use only and must not be
distributed commercially. They have been put together by other
members for private educational use under the "fair use" provision of
U.S. copyright law.

More information on copyright can be obtained from:

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/faq.html

The portion of "Fair Use" is here:

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/92chap1.html#107

As a musician myself, I believe very strongly in the copyright laws,
it is the only way to ensure a composer/musician gets paid. I have a
number of tunes which have been published and I like to get paid! I
would never endorse the breaking of these laws. I also believe very
strongly in music education and believe forums such as this one
provide the means for members to gain knowledge.

I hope this helps with your questions

---alisdair

--- In Band-in-a-Box@y..., "Robert Pickett" <robert871@h...> wrote:

Hello. I have a question relating to posting files. I notice that
we have a great library of files, and I downloaded them. Thanks to
whoever assembled them.
Apparently, members can upload files to this library for other
members to share. However, I am a bit confused on copyright law. I
know that you cannot copyright a chord progression, and that files I
make with BiaB are my own. However, it is the song melody that
concerns me. If I download a file with melody from the site library
and I know the melody is copyrighted, and if I modify the file but
not the melody, can I re-post my version with melody? What about
files loaded from the other web sites?

I guess my basic question is: How do I handle melodies when
posting?
Bob P


Re: BIAB needs more support for lead sheet structure

Richard Whitehouse <rsw@...>
 

Yes, but I'm not asking them to turn it into a full-fledged notation
program, I'm just asking for the basic structural tools required to make a
lead sheet: 1st and second ending, D.C.'s, D.S.'s, and so on. I don't
think these things would be that hard to program (I'm a computer programmer
myself). All it requires is the ability to jump from one part of the file
to another part of the file, repeat it, and so on. They already have some
of this functionality, they have one "jump to coda" point, and they have a
basic repeated area, and that's it.

They manage to find lots of time to implement support for digital audio,
and for additions like "soloist", and so on, so I think they have the
resources to do this. The way I look at it, BIAB is based on the
lead-sheet concept: enter some chords, define an intro and an ending,
repeat a certain number of times. This concept is based on the jazz lead
sheet. So, why not take that concept to its logical conclusion, and
include support for 1st and 2nd endings, DCs, DSs, etc.? Personally I
don't really care if it can do fancy notation, I just want a real lead
sheet tool, and BIAB isn't quite there yet.

Richard

I am not sure it would be so easy to do for the extremely low price that
PG Music sells BiaB for.

Music score writing programs are both pretty computer intensive and labor
intensive. Even the best programs like Finale and Encore require the human
to correct a lot of things like triplets, dotted eighth and sixteenths
notes, etc.. If the MIDI file is absolutely quantized before it goes into
the music score program, it comes out well, but quantized music is
inappropriate for all but a few dance music types.

Even expensive ($400 and up) sequencing programs like Cakewalk and Cubase
have very limited music notation features. A little better than BiaB, but
still inadequate for writing scores and barely adequate for lead sheet
charts.


Re: BIAB needs more support for lead sheet structure

Richard Whitehouse <rsw@...>
 

By the way, I already believe BIAB is a killer tool. Besides what I
described
above, I use it to developing my successful one-man-band thing, to develop
songs to be played in our progressive jazz and dixieland jazz bands and most
importantly, to practice. Nothing, but nothing, IMO, beats BIAB for
practice. IT IS A KILLER TOOL already.
Oh, and also, my grand kids have one super time playing the drums on the
screen. That makes it a killer in itself.
Ok, you say you use it as a lead sheet tool. Just think how much more
useful it would be as a lead sheet tool if it included all the structural
components of a lead sheet! Real lead sheets have 1st and 2nd endings,
sometimes several of them. They have DCs, they have DS's, sometimes more
than one. They have multiple repeating sections, not just one repeating
section.

These things would not be that difficult to program, since they involve
merely jumping around to various points in the file, and repeating various
sections of the file. The programs authors are continually adding fancy
bells and whistles such as digital audio, solo generators, and so on. I'm
just asking that they go back to basics and bring the lead sheet concept to
fruition.

Richard


Re: Lead Sheets..notation support

Richard Whitehouse <rsw@...>
 

It depends on what you need the lead sheets for. If you are printing them
for the convenience of close band members, hand altered repeat signs are no
problem.

If you are distributing these for sale as professional arrangements, you
had better use Sibelius, Cakewalk or Encore.

For all the areas in between those two extremes, it is a judgement call.
Why can't there be a middle ground, namely: improve the basic funtionality
of BIAB to include support for 1st and 2nd endings (multiple), DC's, DS's,
and multiple repeating sections.

Then it would truly usable as a lead sheet tool, which is what it set out
to be in the first place. What it really is a computerized version of a
lead sheet, that generates the rhythm section accompaniment. The
interface looks sort of like a leed sheet (i.e., entering chord symbols).

Other notation programs don't have the lead sheet concept, they have the
concept of being a sheet of manuscript paper that you can write on inside
the computer. Do you see what I mean?

Richard


Re: BIAB needs more support for lead sheet struct ure

Richard Whitehouse <rsw@...>
 

It's not ideal,
but BIAB would lose its point if it became a fully fledged notation
programme.
The point is not to turn BIAB into another notation programme, but to bring
its "lead sheet concept" to fruition.


Re: Question on files

John Birchall <jpb2@...>
 

alisdair@alisdair.com writes:
So distributing a Band In a Box file with chords and melody (a single
copy) for educational
purposes with no financial transactions involved should be allowed.
Alisdair,
how is 'a single copy' interpreted?
What about posting on a website for downloading ...
single copy to maybe lots of different individuals?
with no money and for educational purposes ... ?

cheers and beers
john p birchall
Bush sax player from Chester.


Re: BIAB needs more support for lead sheet structure

Robert Godkin <godkinr@...>
 

"If it doesn't have that quirk that you want, it ain't no good." Is that what
you are saying? All my life I've been using pencil and pad to write my music.
With an eraser of course. I still use the pencil on my BIAB lead sheets. All the
guys in the band still use pencils on their lead sheets. Repeat signs,
expression, codas, endings, etc. It isn't an effort believe me. It's only for
the guys in the band anyway. They love BIAB lead sheets. No one has ever
complained that is. Maybe this discussion will stimulate PG to work at it but
they do have to think of where the most bucks come from (guitar players), and
develop it that way. I would bet you that that is high on their list of to-dos
though. The next version, V11, probably won't come out until next December or
January, if we are lucky. Our turn will come, I'm sure. As an alternative
though, you could write into your song the extra bars that would be the 1st, 2nd
and 3rd endings. Just do the song as 1 chorus. When you print it out, with
pencil in hand, write in the endings. BIAB is a killer tool 100% IMO.

Have a great day

Robert Godkin

Richard Whitehouse wrote:


Ok, you say you use it as a lead sheet tool. Just think how much more
useful it would be as a lead sheet tool if it included all the structural
components of a lead sheet! Real lead sheets have 1st and 2nd endings,
sometimes several of them. They have DCs, they have DS's, sometimes more
than one. They have multiple repeating sections, not just one repeating
section.

These things would not be that difficult to program, since they involve
merely jumping around to various points in the file, and repeating various
sections of the file. The programs authors are continually adding fancy
bells and whistles such as digital audio, solo generators, and so on. I'm
just asking that they go back to basics and bring the lead sheet concept to
fruition.

Richard


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Band-in-a-Box-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


downloads

simon.hamelink@...
 

Hello,

can anybody tell me why I only download corrupted zipfiles?
should I disable Getright?

Thanks.....Simon


Subscription Options

alisdair@...
 

Folks

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---alisdair


Re: BIAB needs more support for lead sheet structure

David Bailey <dhbailey@...>
 

Actually, I think if you looked at the program you would probably see
that the chord entry screen is what has the repeated section and jump-to
points. Then the song becomes a midi file, and midi files do NOT
contain any repeats or jump-to points but rather are compiled straight
through from beginning to end, with three separate sections in a row if
you want three repetitions on the chord entry screen.

It is the midi file which provides the data from which the notation
screen is drawn. That is why when you vary the style in the middle
chorus, the piano/bass/drums/whatever parts are notated differently when
you get to that section in the notation window. And that is also why you
can't just go to a notation window without having compiled the song
first. If you DO go to a notation window without having comiled the
song (clicked the PLAY button) first you will see empty staves with the
chord symbols which are merely copied from the chord entry screen.

So you are asking BIAB to add a completely different module whereby it
takes the first chorus and then inserts the first/second endings and
coda markings. This is a lot more complicated than you might think, and
is different from the purpose the notation window serves currently.

But keep asking them for it. Heck, it didn't used to have any notation
capability at all so they may decide if enough users ask for this
feature they will add it.



Richard Whitehouse wrote:


Yes, but I'm not asking them to turn it into a full-fledged notation
program, I'm just asking for the basic structural tools required to make a
lead sheet: 1st and second ending, D.C.'s, D.S.'s, and so on. I don't
think these things would be that hard to program (I'm a computer programmer
myself). All it requires is the ability to jump from one part of the file
to another part of the file, repeat it, and so on. They already have some
of this functionality, they have one "jump to coda" point, and they have a
basic repeated area, and that's it.

They manage to find lots of time to implement support for digital audio,
and for additions like "soloist", and so on, so I think they have the
resources to do this. The way I look at it, BIAB is based on the
lead-sheet concept: enter some chords, define an intro and an ending,
repeat a certain number of times. This concept is based on the jazz lead
sheet. So, why not take that concept to its logical conclusion, and
include support for 1st and 2nd endings, DCs, DSs, etc.? Personally I
don't really care if it can do fancy notation, I just want a real lead
sheet tool, and BIAB isn't quite there yet.

Richard

I am not sure it would be so easy to do for the extremely low price that
PG Music sells BiaB for.

Music score writing programs are both pretty computer intensive and labor
intensive. Even the best programs like Finale and Encore require the human
to correct a lot of things like triplets, dotted eighth and sixteenths
notes, etc.. If the MIDI file is absolutely quantized before it goes into
the music score program, it comes out well, but quantized music is
inappropriate for all but a few dance music types.

Even expensive ($400 and up) sequencing programs like Cakewalk and Cubase
have very limited music notation features. A little better than BiaB, but
still inadequate for writing scores and barely adequate for lead sheet
charts.


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Band-in-a-Box-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@ix.netcom.com


Working folder

Robert Godkin <godkinr@...>
 

I'm not sure this can be done but does someone have a solution to this
problem?

I do not keep the songs I'm working on in the BB folder. My songs are save
in a separate folder outside BB. The reason being that there is just to
much in the BB folder. I also want to keep the BB folder pure BIAB styles
and necessities to run it. When I boot BIAB it always goes directly into
the BB folder.

I would like to have it so, when I boot BIAB, it would go directly to my
working folder, or, to the last folder I saved my file to. I think this is
the way MS works though I'm not sure of that.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Robert Godkin


Re: Working folder

David Bailey <dhbailey@...>
 

Band-in-a-Box always looks in the BB folder for any songs.

What I do is have my songs all organized into folders UNDER the BB main
folder, so what I see when I click the OPEN button is the list of the
different folders containing my songs, organized by the books they go
along with. So one folder is called Definitive Jazz Collection, one is
called Ultimate Jazz Fakebook, one is called Christmas Collection, etc.

But they are all under the BB main folder. This makes it very easy to
back the whole thing up, styles, songs, and all, onto CDRW and onto
another hard-drive.



Robert Godkin wrote:


I'm not sure this can be done but does someone have a solution to this
problem?

I do not keep the songs I'm working on in the BB folder. My songs are save
in a separate folder outside BB. The reason being that there is just to
much in the BB folder. I also want to keep the BB folder pure BIAB styles
and necessities to run it. When I boot BIAB it always goes directly into
the BB folder.

I would like to have it so, when I boot BIAB, it would go directly to my
working folder, or, to the last folder I saved my file to. I think this is
the way MS works though I'm not sure of that.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Robert Godkin


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Band-in-a-Box-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@ix.netcom.com


Re: Working folder

Bob Roetker
 

Robert, that is the way almost ALL Windows applications work - you create a
shortcut and tell the shortcut what folder to start in. Sadly, BIAB must not
be following all of the Windows programming conventions because BIAB 10 is
unable to do this (even though BIAB 9 was able). You can accomplish the same
thing however by going to Opt, Preferences, and selecting At Program
Bootup - Open Previous Song.

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Godkin" <godkinr@sympatico.ca>
To: <Band-in-a-Box@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 1:12 PM
Subject: [Band-in-a-Box] Working folder



I'm not sure this can be done but does someone have a solution to this
problem?

I do not keep the songs I'm working on in the BB folder. My songs are
save
in a separate folder outside BB. The reason being that there is just to
much in the BB folder. I also want to keep the BB folder pure BIAB styles
and necessities to run it. When I boot BIAB it always goes directly
into
the BB folder.

I would like to have it so, when I boot BIAB, it would go directly to my
working folder, or, to the last folder I saved my file to. I think this
is
the way MS works though I'm not sure of that.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Robert Godkin



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Band-in-a-Box-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





Hawaiian Strum question

robert871@...
 

No giggling allowed on this. I know I should have the answer, but I
do not. I need a BiaB style that emulates the ukulele strum used by
IZ on Over the Rainbow. I have tried adapting several of the new
BiaB 10 guitar styles, and I have written several styles from
scratch. All sound lousy to me.
Any advice out there.
Thanks
Bob P


Re: Working folder

Paul
 

Robert,

Go to File-File utilities..-Change directory path or type "Ctrl D"
to change the default directory for songs.

Paul

--- In Band-in-a-Box@y..., Robert Godkin <godkinr@s...> wrote:

I'm not sure this can be done but does someone have a solution to
this
problem?

I do not keep the songs I'm working on in the BB folder. My songs
are save
in a separate folder outside BB. The reason being that there is
just to
much in the BB folder. I also want to keep the BB folder pure BIAB
styles
and necessities to run it. When I boot BIAB it always goes
directly into
the BB folder.

I would like to have it so, when I boot BIAB, it would go directly
to my
working folder, or, to the last folder I saved my file to. I think
this is
the way MS works though I'm not sure of that.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Robert Godkin


Re: BIAB needs more support for lead sheet structure

Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

At 06:59 AM 1/28/01 -0500, David Bailey wrote:
But keep asking them for it.  Heck, it didn't used to have any notation
capability at all so they may decide if enough users ask for this
feature they will add it.

It has been my experience that PG Music is very responsive to customer requests. They would be foolish not to be.

The more requests they get for something, the quicker they will act on it (the squeaky wheels get the oil first). So if you want something, don't be afraid to write a nice letter requesting what you want.


Bob "Notes" Norton
owner, Norton Music
norton@...

FREE Midi Files ... Band-in-a-Box improvement software ... links to MIDI file search pages ... download and print sheet music directly from the web ... a few jokes to brighten your day ... and some way cool stuff of interest to musicians!!!


Soloist files

Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

Has anybody figured out how to make a soloist file?

PG Music isn't letting the secret out.


Bob "Notes" Norton
owner, Norton Music
norton@nortonmusic.com
http://www.nortonmusic.com

FREE Midi Files ... Band-in-a-Box improvement software ... links to MIDI
file search pages ... download and print sheet music directly from the web
... a few jokes to brighten your day ... and some way cool stuff of
interest to musicians!!!


NEW MEMBER/FIRST POSTING

vstguy@...
 

We have been using and updating my BinaB ( Mac ) since version five and still have problems fully
understanding and working with style, soloist and melody makers.

BinaB has been an invaluable piece of music technology in our home studio.

Glad that there now exists a more flexiible and lively forum that is hopefully far removed from PG .


Re: Working folder

Robert Godkin <godkinr@...>
 

I tried this but it seems to put me back into the BB directory each time I
booted BIAB. I think I'll stay with, Opt., Preferences(2), at song boot up
open previous song.

Many thanks to those who responded to my question.

Robert Godkin

filion@netzero.net wrote:

Robert,

Go to File-File utilities..-Change directory path or type "Ctrl D"
to change the default directory for songs.

Paul

--- In Band-in-a-Box@y..., Robert Godkin <godkinr@s...> wrote:

I'm not sure this can be done but does someone have a solution to
this
problem?

I do not keep the songs I'm working on in the BB folder. My songs
are save
in a separate folder outside BB. The reason being that there is
just to
much in the BB folder. I also want to keep the BB folder pure BIAB
styles
and necessities to run it. When I boot BIAB it always goes
directly into
the BB folder.

I would like to have it so, when I boot BIAB, it would go directly
to my
working folder, or, to the last folder I saved my file to. I think
this is
the way MS works though I'm not sure of that.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Robert Godkin

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Re: Working folder

Bob Roetker
 

Paul, that only works during that particular session of BIAB. When you close
BIAB and re-open it again it will not default to that folder.

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: <filion@netzero.net>
To: <Band-in-a-Box@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 11:15 PM
Subject: [Band-in-a-Box] Re: Working folder


Robert,

Go to File-File utilities..-Change directory path or type "Ctrl D"
to change the default directory for songs.

Paul

--- In Band-in-a-Box@y..., Robert Godkin <godkinr@s...> wrote:

I'm not sure this can be done but does someone have a solution to
this
problem?

I do not keep the songs I'm working on in the BB folder. My songs
are save
in a separate folder outside BB. The reason being that there is
just to
much in the BB folder. I also want to keep the BB folder pure BIAB
styles
and necessities to run it. When I boot BIAB it always goes
directly into
the BB folder.

I would like to have it so, when I boot BIAB, it would go directly
to my
working folder, or, to the last folder I saved my file to. I think
this is
the way MS works though I'm not sure of that.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Robert Godkin


Post message: Band-in-a-Box@yahoogroups.com
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