Date   

Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

David H. Bailey
 

On 2/13/2021 8:46 AM, Bo Stottlemyer wrote:
I am using BIAB Audiophile version 2020 and have a question.  Since PG has placed both the WMA and WAV real tracks into the same folder, how can I be sure I'm selecting only the audiophile WAV tracks?
[snip]

Move the .wma files to a different folder so that BIAB can't find them.

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

Bo Stottlemyer
 

I am using BIAB Audiophile version 2020 and have a question.  Since PG has placed both the WMA and WAV real tracks into the same folder, how can I be sure I'm selecting only the audiophile WAV tracks?  


Re: Link to Cakewalk

Bill
 

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to learn the program?

I was a Cakewalk user from the beginning and can no longer remember how long ago that was. Maybe under DOS?
The Cakewalk.com site looks like it still has complete documentation. http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=toc.html 
But I most enjoyed Scott Garrigus' Digifreq mailing list at http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/ and it looks like it is still active. If the message history is still there it was great. I also bought all of Scott's books and got a lot out of them. I imagine there are a lot available used now.

Bill H


Re: Problem with GM

MikeS88
 

I am also using BIAB 2019 for the Mac, and don’t upgrade every year either. I’ve decided to stay on Catalina for a little while longer because I use BIAB so much, as well as to make sure my other music software (Cubase 11, Groove Agent SE5, Waves plug ins, Kontakt libraries, a bunch of other VST’s, Nord Sound Manager, etc.) is compatible. 
 
Guessing I'll move to Big Sur when BIAB 2021 comes out in the spring. Everything else should also be caught up by then.


Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

William Prentice
 

I think I'll pass on adding a MIDI interface to my setup.  I don't have any issues with Real Tracks so I have no down time with any technical problems when I am expecting a fun, creative process.
  
I am not a fan of lossy, wma file formats.  If you ever hear the Audiophile Edition...your ears will never want to go back.  That would be the main reason I would add MIDI to my setup. MIDI sound from a keyboard or a module is higher quality.  It sounds better (more ear pleasing) than the wma Real Tracks.  The wma compression process throws away about 90% of the audio file so it's about 1\10 the original file size...the lost data can never be recovered.  The spectrum analyzer in a DAW will reveal everything above 15k is gone...nothing there...nothing to be recover.  (I've always wondered where the remaining 90% goes...maybe they cut it into 10% slices so they can sell 1 song 10 times?)

If I didn't have the Audiophile Edition I know I would be using my MIDI sound modules for their higher resolution sound quality.  2013 was my first introduction to BNAB and in 2014, I upgraded to the Audiophile Edition.  I do use the up-sample function for rendering audio tracks.  The 24 bit 48k works wonderful with my DAW and the final mix is in HD audio, 24 bit 48k.  High resolution audio files do sound better.  When the mix is done, I compress it with FLAC which is a lossless audio file format.  It reduces the file size about 1/3, unzips the music in real time with the bandwidth of the original and can be expanded back into a wav file with no loss.
  
I have a special funds folder where I place my throw away change and by the end of the year use it for the next upgrade.  2020 was a major upgrade and 2021 was another giant step upward.  My albums are now available around the world.  I have1 fan in Ukraine...collusion so now I can never run for President!  Oh well, that's why I am a songwriter. 
   
I do learn a lot from reading all these posts.  Thanks all!

On Friday, February 12, 2021, 02:05:30 AM MST, Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...> wrote:


You have a good point, and there is more than one right way to make music.

I tend to input everything live in 'real time' using various MIDI controllers, so I guess I'm all the human error I need (sometimes more than I need -- which means I haven't practiced the part enough <grin>)


On 2/10/2021 1:56 AM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
Bob, I overwhelmingly defer to your opinions, but I think you are being slightly harsh.

'Humanizing' and groove are not antithetical. They can be complimentary. 'Humanizing' randomization doesn't have have to be mindless.

A well done MIDI file can have a great groove with the drums and other tracks properly in their respective pockets. It can of course depend if those drums and instruments were played in or programmed.

With programmed files the note velocities and note lengths may be too exacting and repetetive. So you keep the note starts almost untouched with maybe a range of -3 to +10 ticks and a slightly larger range of maybe -5 to + 15 ticks for note ending and velocity. Your still will probably be more exacting than a human player but you'll have a better feel over all.

I think all tools and techniques have their place ... and any can be used inapproriately.

---===«<>»===---
Bob "Notes" Norton • owner, Norton Music • http://www.nortonmusic.com
BiaB User Styles that will make your band 'Jump-Out-Of-The-Box'.


Re: Problem with GM

John Blegen
 

The patch for BIAB 2020 works, though I did find (and report) a small problem: the notation window with notes on a staff advances a beat or two later than it should.  That aside, the color glitches are gone, the notation and lead sheet windows are back, and the program no longer crashes.  I’m disappointed with PG for the time they took to fix this and the failure to fix (support!) BIAB 2019. The situation prompted me to look for substitutes, and I found some, but they didn’t do what I needed as well as BIAB, so I hope the company takes this as a wake-up call.

On Friday, February 12, 2021, 6:32 AM, Joe Muscara <joe@...> wrote:

Unfortunately, it appears they updated BIAB 2020 for Big Sur, but not BIAB 2019 which is the one I have. I normally only buy the upgrade every few years. I have some options including dual-booting and using an older macOS when I want to use BIAB (I did Big Sur as a clean install on a fresh volume so I still have Catalina and even Mojave available to me), suffering with the graphical glitches and lack of Notation window under Big Sur, paying for just the upgrade of the app to the 2020 version, or waiting until the 2021 version ships.

Or not using it at all. I don't dislike BIAB, but I am paying for lots of aspects that I hardly use right now. I thought I would but life is funny that way.


Re: Problem with GM

Joe Muscara
 

Unfortunately, it appears they updated BIAB 2020 for Big Sur, but not BIAB 2019 which is the one I have. I normally only buy the upgrade every few years. I have some options including dual-booting and using an older macOS when I want to use BIAB (I did Big Sur as a clean install on a fresh volume so I still have Catalina and even Mojave available to me), suffering with the graphical glitches and lack of Notation window under Big Sur, paying for just the upgrade of the app to the 2020 version, or waiting until the 2021 version ships.

Or not using it at all. I don't dislike BIAB, but I am paying for lots of aspects that I hardly use right now. I thought I would but life is funny that way.


Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

IAN GRAHAM
 

Love it! We've all been there !

On 10/02/2021 14:55, Bob 'Notes' Norton wrote:
I'm all the human error I need


Re: A Real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

Chris Welch <chris.welch@...>
 

A bit messy, you can create Access "applications".  They are packaged for installation in Microsoft Visual Studio. 

This uses just run time components (the Jet database engine) so they can be distributed freely and the folks using them don't have to have Access.

I've setup many installation packages in Visual Studio for Visual Basic, C and C#, there are similar runtime library issues, it is a bit tedious.  I haven't done an Access application, but the process is pretty much the same.

It can be done.

I haven't had a look at the latest VS for it, but it may have a packaging template to help package Access applications.

Bye for now,

On 2021-02-11 3:38 p.m., D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
I'd agree on Excel vs. Access. Almost anyone who has Access has Excel and knows how to import an Excel spreadsheet into Access.

On the other hand there are some powerful queries in Access that if someone wanted to take the time to make a nice front end would be very convenient.

On Thursday, February 11, 2021, 11:22:36 AM PST, Roy Robinson via groups.io <robinson_yh2@...> wrote:


agree   sounds interesting to me as well.  It will be helpful to see the example.

question:  have you created the example have you determined how to obtain the data?
In Style-Picker we can see that styles have between 1 and 7 instruments.

in reference to format
Excel is readily available and easy enough to manage data
Access is a pretty large hurdle


Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

Chris Welch <chris.welch@...>
 

Bang on Bob! What the humanizing feature needs is to understand this and do the "humanizing" in this fashion instead of just randomizing.

They should rename the humanizing by randomizing to "amateurizing" as that is how it sounds to me.

On 2021-02-09 4:08 p.m., Bob 'Notes' Norton wrote:
I'm not fond of humanizing at all. "Humanizing" moves the notes around in a random fashion controlled only by how much you let them vary from their starting point. To me randomizing does nothing but increase the slop factor.

For most modern popular forms of music, the musicians do not play in sync with the tempo as if they are step-entered, but whether consciously or unconsciously play certain notes intentionally either ahead or behind the beat. It's consistent and not random at all.

Example 1: Swing is somewhere between a triplet and a dotted eights / sixteenth note rhythm. But how much? Some gentle swings are closer to the triplet and some are closer to the dotted eighth / sixteenth. It depends on the song and the interpretation of that song. And if mixing two real tracks with different swing factors, what you get is a sloppy band.

Example 2: Beat 2 and 4 of a 4/4 tempo song. Sometimes beat 2 and 4 are rushed ahead of the beat, sometimes they lag behind the beat. And again how much ahead or behind? The entire band needs to be together. So if mixing two real tracks that don't have the 2s and 4s in the same place, you get slop.

Example 3: Beat 2 of a 3/4 song is often rushed ahead of the beat. When I was in school band, the band director played different recordings of Strauss Waltzes by different orchestras to demonstrate how different conductors rushed that second beat by different amounts. It was my first introduction to what we call the groove in popular music.

Example 4: Eighth notes are often not played exactly equal either. When you step enter a single stroke roll on a snare drum it sounds like a machine drum. Real drummers have one hand stronger than the other so one is more aggressive than the other. Plus one hits harder and on a slightly different part of the drum head. Similarly guitarists usually have more force on a down-stroke than an up-stroke. I could go on and on.

Example 5: When the bassist and drummer are in sync, if the bass player plays a microsecond ahead of the kick drum, it emphasizes the notes of the bass line. Conversely if the bass lags the kick drum a hair, the thud of the kick drum is emphasized. Crash cymbals are usually hit a hair early for that same reason. Humanizing would ruin all of this.

Leilani and I took ballroom dancing because what better way to see which beats or sub-beats should be rushed or delayed than to dance the appropriate dances? When the groove is right, it moves the dancers, when the dancers are moved, they have a great time, and when they have a great time, they re-hire the band. The result was when we worked on the cruise ships, there was a 20 piece orchestra that played ballroom dance music, but the ballroom dancers would come to dance with us.

Leilani already knew how to do most popular dances so we had that under control from the start.

In the recording studio, the drummer sets the groove. The drummer is the king/queen of the groove, and all the other players must listen to the drummer's groove and sync in with it, if not, they won't be called back for another session. If two different real tracks are playing to a different groove, you get beautiful tone but not beautiful music.

Humanizing is randomizing. The groove is deliberate, and it breathes life into the music.

There is a lot that takes these notes and turns them into something that touches the listener. Rhythm is one piece of the puzzle, perhaps the most basic. After that we have dynamics, phrasing, ornaments, and quite a few others. Having a life of music is a life of learning, and that's one of the things I love about it. No matter how much I learn, there is always a new discovery ahead, whether I make it on my own, I learn it from a master, or I learn it from a student (and a good teacher always learns from students).

>>>»»»O«««<<<
Bob "Notes" Norton • owner, Norton Music • http://www.nortonmusic.com
BiaB user styles with live entered parts for that live music groove for musicians who want BiaB to sound like real musicians and not robots.


On 2/8/2021 8:50 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
Almost all competent DAWs contain MIDI plugins or features in the track headers to introduce 'humanizing' into the MIDI playback of a track. They do this by including parameters, for examples, that permit you to choose ranges for timing, note length, velocity, etc., in random manner that changes 'mechanical' note entry into something more interesting.

This does not take into account the additional 'massaging' that can be accomplished through a DAW's MIDI editor.



Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

Lee Griffith <ldgriffith@...>
 

His name is Henry Clarke. If you search youtube for his name he has some great tutorials. Unfortunately, I use the Mac version of BIAB so his key clicks don’t correspond with the Mac version.

-Lee


On Feb 10, 2021, at 9:41 AM, D F Tweedie via groups.io <bienpegaito@...> wrote:

Henry Clark


Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

You have a good point, and there is more than one right way to make music.

I tend to input everything live in 'real time' using various MIDI controllers, so I guess I'm all the human error I need (sometimes more than I need -- which means I haven't practiced the part enough <grin>)


On 2/10/2021 1:56 AM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
Bob, I overwhelmingly defer to your opinions, but I think you are being slightly harsh.

'Humanizing' and groove are not antithetical. They can be complimentary. 'Humanizing' randomization doesn't have have to be mindless.

A well done MIDI file can have a great groove with the drums and other tracks properly in their respective pockets. It can of course depend if those drums and instruments were played in or programmed.

With programmed files the note velocities and note lengths may be too exacting and repetetive. So you keep the note starts almost untouched with maybe a range of -3 to +10 ticks and a slightly larger range of maybe -5 to + 15 ticks for note ending and velocity. Your still will probably be more exacting than a human player but you'll have a better feel over all.

I think all tools and techniques have their place ... and any can be used inapproriately.

---===«<>»===---
Bob "Notes" Norton • owner, Norton Music • http://www.nortonmusic.com
BiaB User Styles that will make your band 'Jump-Out-Of-The-Box'.


Re: A Real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

D F Tweedie
 

I'd agree on Excel vs. Access. Almost anyone who has Access has Excel and knows how to import an Excel spreadsheet into Access.

On the other hand there are some powerful queries in Access that if someone wanted to take the time to make a nice front end would be very convenient.

On Thursday, February 11, 2021, 11:22:36 AM PST, Roy Robinson via groups.io <robinson_yh2@...> wrote:


agree   sounds interesting to me as well.  It will be helpful to see the example.

question:  have you created the example have you determined how to obtain the data?
In Style-Picker we can see that styles have between 1 and 7 instruments.

in reference to format
Excel is readily available and easy enough to manage data
Access is a pretty large hurdle


Re: A Real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

Roy Robinson
 

agree   sounds interesting to me as well.  It will be helpful to see the example.

question:  have you created the example have you determined how to obtain the data?
In Style-Picker we can see that styles have between 1 and 7 instruments.

in reference to format
Excel is readily available and easy enough to manage data
Access is a pretty large hurdle


Re: A Real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

Gudrun Brunot
 

Robert, this is brilliant, so useful. Just one note as a fellow Scandinavian: we say “solist,” but folks over here say “soloist.”

 

Cheers, hej, whatever…

 

Gudrun

 

 

From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Birkeland
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 7:05 AM
To: main@band-in-a-box.groups.io
Cc: David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...>
Subject: [Band-In-A-Box] LINK TO: a real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

 

HI BETTER STILL

you can look at the files in my www

LINK:

 

 

mvh/regards
Robert Birkeland, Bergen, NORWAY

 

On 11/02/2021 15:23, David H. Bailey wrote:

Sounds interesting -- but attachments are stripped for this group, so whatever "this" is did not make it to the group.

Instead, upload it to the files section of the band-in-a-box page at groups.io and then provide a link to it in a message to the group.

David


On 2/11/2021 7:47 AM, Robert Birkeland wrote:

WOULD ANYONE BE INTERESTED IN A INSTRUMENTS DATABASE,,,,,?

In this way you can find out which instruments the different styles uses,

and what styles each instruments can fit into...

this is a short example of what you can see...here in xls-format

if this is converted to ACCESS then it would be more useful.

PG music have no database of what instruments they use for the styles-demos,

but in this way you will have full access

---
mvh/regards
Robert Birkeland , Bergen, NORWAY
www.filtermusik.dk



-- 
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com





Re: A Real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

David Brusegard
 

I got the excel files from his link.  They look very helpful
David

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 7:09 AM Robert Birkeland <robert@...> wrote:
HI BETTER STILL
you can look at the files in my www
LINK:
 
 
mvh/regards
Robert Birkeland, Bergen, NORWAY


On 11/02/2021 15:23, David H. Bailey wrote:

Sounds interesting -- but attachments are stripped for this group, so whatever "this" is did not make it to the group.

Instead, upload it to the files section of the band-in-a-box page at groups.io and then provide a link to it in a message to the group.

David


On 2/11/2021 7:47 AM, Robert Birkeland wrote:
WOULD ANYONE BE INTERESTED IN A INSTRUMENTS DATABASE,,,,,?

In this way you can find out which instruments the different styles uses,

and what styles each instruments can fit into...

this is a short example of what you can see...here in xls-format

if this is converted to ACCESS then it would be more useful.

PG music have no database of what instruments they use for the styles-demos,

but in this way you will have full access

---
mvh/regards
Robert Birkeland , Bergen, NORWAY
www.filtermusik.dk



-- 
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






A Real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

Robert Birkeland
 

HI BETTER STILL
you can look at the files in my www
LINK:
 
 
mvh/regards
Robert Birkeland, Bergen, NORWAY
www.filtermusik.dk


On 11/02/2021 15:23, David H. Bailey wrote:

Sounds interesting -- but attachments are stripped for this group, so whatever "this" is did not make it to the group.

Instead, upload it to the files section of the band-in-a-box page at groups.io and then provide a link to it in a message to the group.

David


On 2/11/2021 7:47 AM, Robert Birkeland wrote:
WOULD ANYONE BE INTERESTED IN A INSTRUMENTS DATABASE,,,,,?

In this way you can find out which instruments the different styles uses,

and what styles each instruments can fit into...

this is a short example of what you can see...here in xls-format

if this is converted to ACCESS then it would be more useful.

PG music have no database of what instruments they use for the styles-demos,

but in this way you will have full access

---
mvh/regards
Robert Birkeland , Bergen, NORWAY
www.filtermusik.dk



-- 
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

Gary Benny
 

Looks like he’s on YouTube too. 

Gary

On Feb 10, 2021, at 4:13 PM, IAN GRAHAM via groups.io <idgraham@...> wrote:



Noted, Jan

I have a very soft spot for Abdullah Ibrahim. I wish 'someone' would do a township style.

Ian G.

On 10/02/2021 20:29, jan@... wrote:
Afro2swing style caught my ear and is really good and well made.


Re: A Real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

David H. Bailey
 

Sounds interesting -- but attachments are stripped for this group, so whatever "this" is did not make it to the group.

Instead, upload it to the files section of the band-in-a-box page at groups.io and then provide a link to it in a message to the group.

David

On 2/11/2021 7:47 AM, Robert Birkeland wrote:
WOULD ANYONE BE INTERESTED IN A INSTRUMENTS DATABASE,,,,,?
In this way you can find out which instruments the different styles uses,
and what styles each instruments can fit into...
this is a short example of what you can see...here in xls-format
if this is converted to ACCESS then it would be more useful.
PG music have no database of what instruments they use for the styles-demos,
but in this way you will have full access
---
mvh/regards
Robert Birkeland , Bergen, NORWAY
www.filtermusik.dk
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: A Real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

Paul Chamberlain
 

Sounds interesting to me

 

From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Birkeland
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 7:48 AM
To: main@band-in-a-box.groups.io
Subject: [Band-In-A-Box] a real-Tracks INSTRUMENTS database

 

WOULD ANYONE BE INTERESTED IN A INSTRUMENTS DATABASE,,,,,?

In this way you can find out which instruments the different styles uses,

and what styles each instruments can fit into...

this is a short example of what you can see...here in xls-format

if this is converted to ACCESS then it would be more useful.

PG music have no database of what instruments they use for the styles-demos,

but in this way you will have full access

---

mvh/regards
Robert Birkeland , Bergen, NORWAY

 

401 - 420 of 49954