Date   

Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

@Dzjang
 

I agree that most built in styles are mechanical, repetitive, bland. Nevertheless, there are styles in there that are really intricate.
pair them with good Kontakt libraries and you’d swear you heard a real band. 


As everyone seems to agree on: midi ain’t dead at all. 


Being really into ECM style jazz, Dejohnette, Joshua Redman, Joey Calderazzo, I came up with my own styles. Took me a long, long time to master stylemaking, but I am really proud of them. And enjoy playing with biab more, now. Even putting up with all the weirdness and bugs of it. :)



Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

D F Tweedie
 

Bob, I overwhelmingly defer to your opinions, but I think you are being slightly harsh.

'Humanizing' and groove are not antithetical. They can be complimentary. 'Humanizing' randomization doesn't have have to be mindless.

A well done MIDI file can have a great groove with the drums and other tracks properly in their respective pockets. It can of course depend if those drums and instruments were played in or programmed.

With programmed files the note velocities and note lengths may be too exacting and repetetive. So you keep the note starts almost untouched with maybe a range of -3 to +10 ticks and a slightly larger range of maybe -5 to + 15 ticks for note ending and velocity. Your still will probably be more exacting than a human player but you'll have a better feel over all.

I think all tools and techniques have their place ... and any can be used inapproriately.

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021, 10:13:35 PM PST, Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...> wrote:


I'm not fond of humanizing at all. "Humanizing" moves the notes around in a random fashion controlled only by how much you let them vary from their starting point. To me randomizing does nothing but increase the slop factor.

For most modern popular forms of music, the musicians do not play in sync with the tempo as if they are step-entered, but whether consciously or unconsciously play certain notes intentionally either ahead or behind the beat. It's consistent and not random at all.

Example 1: Swing is somewhere between a triplet and a dotted eights / sixteenth note rhythm. But how much? Some gentle swings are closer to the triplet and some are closer to the dotted eighth / sixteenth. It depends on the song and the interpretation of that song. And if mixing two real tracks with different swing factors, what you get is a sloppy band.

Example 2: Beat 2 and 4 of a 4/4 tempo song. Sometimes beat 2 and 4 are rushed ahead of the beat, sometimes they lag behind the beat. And again how much ahead or behind? The entire band needs to be together. So if mixing two real tracks that don't have the 2s and 4s in the same place, you get slop.

Example 3: Beat 2 of a 3/4 song is often rushed ahead of the beat. When I was in school band, the band director played different recordings of Strauss Waltzes by different orchestras to demonstrate how different conductors rushed that second beat by different amounts. It was my first introduction to what we call the groove in popular music.

Example 4: Eighth notes are often not played exactly equal either. When you step enter a single stroke roll on a snare drum it sounds like a machine drum. Real drummers have one hand stronger than the other so one is more aggressive than the other. Plus one hits harder and on a slightly different part of the drum head. Similarly guitarists usually have more force on a down-stroke than an up-stroke. I could go on and on.

Example 5: When the bassist and drummer are in sync, if the bass player plays a microsecond ahead of the kick drum, it emphasizes the notes of the bass line. Conversely if the bass lags the kick drum a hair, the thud of the kick drum is emphasized. Crash cymbals are usually hit a hair early for that same reason. Humanizing would ruin all of this.

Leilani and I took ballroom dancing because what better way to see which beats or sub-beats should be rushed or delayed than to dance the appropriate dances? When the groove is right, it moves the dancers, when the dancers are moved, they have a great time, and when they have a great time, they re-hire the band. The result was when we worked on the cruise ships, there was a 20 piece orchestra that played ballroom dance music, but the ballroom dancers would come to dance with us.

Leilani already knew how to do most popular dances so we had that under control from the start.

In the recording studio, the drummer sets the groove. The drummer is the king/queen of the groove, and all the other players must listen to the drummer's groove and sync in with it, if not, they won't be called back for another session. If two different real tracks are playing to a different groove, you get beautiful tone but not beautiful music.

Humanizing is randomizing. The groove is deliberate, and it breathes life into the music.

There is a lot that takes these notes and turns them into something that touches the listener. Rhythm is one piece of the puzzle, perhaps the most basic. After that we have dynamics, phrasing, ornaments, and quite a few others. Having a life of music is a life of learning, and that's one of the things I love about it. No matter how much I learn, there is always a new discovery ahead, whether I make it on my own, I learn it from a master, or I learn it from a student (and a good teacher always learns from students).

>>>»»»O«««<<<
Bob "Notes" Norton • owner, Norton Music • http://www.nortonmusic.com
BiaB user styles with live entered parts for that live music groove for musicians who want BiaB to sound like real musicians and not robots.


On 2/8/2021 8:50 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
Almost all competent DAWs contain MIDI plugins or features in the track headers to introduce 'humanizing' into the MIDI playback of a track. They do this by including parameters, for examples, that permit you to choose ranges for timing, note length, velocity, etc., in random manner that changes 'mechanical' note entry into something more interesting.

This does not take into account the additional 'massaging' that can be accomplished through a DAW's MIDI editor.



Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

I'm not fond of humanizing at all. "Humanizing" moves the notes around in a random fashion controlled only by how much you let them vary from their starting point. To me randomizing does nothing but increase the slop factor.

For most modern popular forms of music, the musicians do not play in sync with the tempo as if they are step-entered, but whether consciously or unconsciously play certain notes intentionally either ahead or behind the beat. It's consistent and not random at all.

Example 1: Swing is somewhere between a triplet and a dotted eights / sixteenth note rhythm. But how much? Some gentle swings are closer to the triplet and some are closer to the dotted eighth / sixteenth. It depends on the song and the interpretation of that song. And if mixing two real tracks with different swing factors, what you get is a sloppy band.

Example 2: Beat 2 and 4 of a 4/4 tempo song. Sometimes beat 2 and 4 are rushed ahead of the beat, sometimes they lag behind the beat. And again how much ahead or behind? The entire band needs to be together. So if mixing two real tracks that don't have the 2s and 4s in the same place, you get slop.

Example 3: Beat 2 of a 3/4 song is often rushed ahead of the beat. When I was in school band, the band director played different recordings of Strauss Waltzes by different orchestras to demonstrate how different conductors rushed that second beat by different amounts. It was my first introduction to what we call the groove in popular music.

Example 4: Eighth notes are often not played exactly equal either. When you step enter a single stroke roll on a snare drum it sounds like a machine drum. Real drummers have one hand stronger than the other so one is more aggressive than the other. Plus one hits harder and on a slightly different part of the drum head. Similarly guitarists usually have more force on a down-stroke than an up-stroke. I could go on and on.

Example 5: When the bassist and drummer are in sync, if the bass player plays a microsecond ahead of the kick drum, it emphasizes the notes of the bass line. Conversely if the bass lags the kick drum a hair, the thud of the kick drum is emphasized. Crash cymbals are usually hit a hair early for that same reason. Humanizing would ruin all of this.

Leilani and I took ballroom dancing because what better way to see which beats or sub-beats should be rushed or delayed than to dance the appropriate dances? When the groove is right, it moves the dancers, when the dancers are moved, they have a great time, and when they have a great time, they re-hire the band. The result was when we worked on the cruise ships, there was a 20 piece orchestra that played ballroom dance music, but the ballroom dancers would come to dance with us.

Leilani already knew how to do most popular dances so we had that under control from the start.

In the recording studio, the drummer sets the groove. The drummer is the king/queen of the groove, and all the other players must listen to the drummer's groove and sync in with it, if not, they won't be called back for another session. If two different real tracks are playing to a different groove, you get beautiful tone but not beautiful music.

Humanizing is randomizing. The groove is deliberate, and it breathes life into the music.

There is a lot that takes these notes and turns them into something that touches the listener. Rhythm is one piece of the puzzle, perhaps the most basic. After that we have dynamics, phrasing, ornaments, and quite a few others. Having a life of music is a life of learning, and that's one of the things I love about it. No matter how much I learn, there is always a new discovery ahead, whether I make it on my own, I learn it from a master, or I learn it from a student (and a good teacher always learns from students).

>>>»»»O«««<<<
Bob "Notes" Norton • owner, Norton Music • http://www.nortonmusic.com
BiaB user styles with live entered parts for that live music groove for musicians who want BiaB to sound like real musicians and not robots.


On 2/8/2021 8:50 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
Almost all competent DAWs contain MIDI plugins or features in the track headers to introduce 'humanizing' into the MIDI playback of a track. They do this by including parameters, for examples, that permit you to choose ranges for timing, note length, velocity, etc., in random manner that changes 'mechanical' note entry into something more interesting.

This does not take into account the additional 'massaging' that can be accomplished through a DAW's MIDI editor.



Re: Performing With Band-in-a-box – Guest Blog Post by Roy Woolliams

Laurie C. McCann <oicflowers@...>
 

Cool.


Laurie McCann

On Friday, January 29, 2021, 6:30 PM, bb@... wrote:

I played my first paying gig in 1957 (I was in the seventh grade at the time) and in over sixty years of doing live performances (including a decade on the road in the ‘70's) I’ve never played with a drummer who switched trap sets in the middle of a gig.  (I vaguely recall a bass player who brought his upright acoustic bass and a Fender fretless but that was unusual.)  I discovered Band-in-a-Box in 2006 after our boomchuck piano player died (I thought I felt a small earthquake as Pat, who was quite large, turned over in her grave having been replaced by software) and I had accumulated something like 3000 Styles when it dawned on me that more is not always better.  I selected about 100 Styles for a working base with which to create a unique Style for almost every tune I added to the book.  (As Bob Norton has pointed out, most songs require at least a bit of customization.)  Like many, for safety reasons I would make Wave files to use onstage – until Band-in-a-Box added the ability to freeze tracks!
Also, like many, I updated Band-in-a-Box each year with the thought in mind that I would support the company that made my life so much simpler.  Then, in the 2014 version, there appeared a new feature, a graphic equalizer!  Not too useful for me as I only used the MIDI capabilities of the program, and there was no way I could get rid of the waste of screen space, so I went back to version 2013 and haven’t updated since.
I would very much like to see our Canadian friends break out a new, MIDI only version of Band-in-a-Box which included the new MIDI tools like freezing tracks, Style creation and the capability of easily adding audio tracks and linking them to the MIDI, and totally remove anything having to do with non-MIDI stuff.  Label it “MIDI ONLY” to avoid confusion and viola, they would have a sleek new product in the line for professionals who make their own “real” tracks.


Re: DAW

Hayward Martin
 

If it’s BIAB 2021, I’ve been having problems with the BAR Settings since the initial release. They released patch 822 recently on their website.  Give it a try IF your using 2021 version.

 

The new mixer, with its’ moving siders, I find to be a real challenge, if your are listing and trying to adjust levels.   If you have MUTES or other level commands in the BAR Settings, the level changes don’t hold when you hit stop.   I think that this is still a problem with Patch 822, but they’ve fixed some other related issues.

 

Hayward

 


From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> on behalf of rtambuscio via groups.io <rtambuscio@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 7:37:30 PM
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
Subject: [Band-In-A-Box] DAW
 
After I have completed. writing a song in BIB with which includes bringing instruments in and out of the piece I then open up the DAW  and import it into Por Tools. However, when I play it back in the DAW it all the instruments play back ignoring the bar settings in BIB. Any suggestions?  

Thanks


Re: Recording issue

Arthur Trinchera
 

Yeah, sorry I missed the mac detail!! Best of luck. I'm sure someone here will help.
A

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 2:32 PM Peter Lovett <peter@...> wrote:
Thank you. 

Yes all settings are correct. Since I use Mac you don’t get issues with ASIO   It all worked well till a couple of days ago. 

For the sake of clarity I also use Reaper and Final Cut with the same focus rite interface and have no problems. 

I am sure it is a setting somewhere but since I can see the meter monitoring the input in  BIAB, I don’t understand why it is not showing as output 

I appreciate your response though. Thank you very much. 

Peter Lovett
+44(0)7768 603865


On 9 Feb 2021, at 22:24, Arthur Trinchera <a.trinchera@...> wrote:


Greetings,
I know you must have your mixer or interface chosen correctly in preferences. 
Definitely choose asio if you see it there, then correctly choose input and output. I'm not in front of Biab at the moment but have certainly had this problem.
I hope my answer doesn't sound like, hey did you turn the thing on?

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021, 2:08 PM Peter Lovett <peter@...> wrote:
Hello all
 
I am amazed at the knowledge in this group. 
 
I have a simple issue and would be grateful if anyone has a solution. 
 
If I try to record audio over a backing track in BIAB 2020 for Mac, I can see the input from the mics but there is no output signal on the meter. I have no problems with any other recording platform I use and can’t find out how I seem to have switched off the output. The mixer shows I have the volumes turned up for audio. What am I missing here?  It is annoying if I have to export to a Daw to then record over tracks. 
 
Thank you in advance. 

Peter Lovett
+44(0)7768 603865
 


Re: Recording issue

Peter Lovett
 

I have, but will do it again and see if that helps, thank you.

On 9 Feb 2021, at 22:59, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@comcast.net> wrote:

On 2/9/2021 5:32 PM, Peter Lovett wrote:
Thank you.
Yes all settings are correct. Since I use Mac you don’t get issues with ASIO It all worked well till a couple of days ago.
For the sake of clarity I also use Reaper and Final Cut with the same focus rite interface and have no problems.
[snip]

If it all worked well until a couple of days ago, have you rebooted the computer? Sometimes that solves that kind of problem.

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com





Re: Recording issue

David H. Bailey
 

On 2/9/2021 5:32 PM, Peter Lovett wrote:
Thank you.
Yes all settings are correct. Since I use Mac you don’t get issues with ASIO   It all worked well till a couple of days ago.
For the sake of clarity I also use Reaper and Final Cut with the same focus rite interface and have no problems.
[snip]

If it all worked well until a couple of days ago, have you rebooted the computer? Sometimes that solves that kind of problem.

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Recording issue

Peter Lovett
 

Thank you. 

Yes all settings are correct. Since I use Mac you don’t get issues with ASIO   It all worked well till a couple of days ago. 

For the sake of clarity I also use Reaper and Final Cut with the same focus rite interface and have no problems. 

I am sure it is a setting somewhere but since I can see the meter monitoring the input in  BIAB, I don’t understand why it is not showing as output 

I appreciate your response though. Thank you very much. 

Peter Lovett
+44(0)7768 603865


On 9 Feb 2021, at 22:24, Arthur Trinchera <a.trinchera@...> wrote:


Greetings,
I know you must have your mixer or interface chosen correctly in preferences. 
Definitely choose asio if you see it there, then correctly choose input and output. I'm not in front of Biab at the moment but have certainly had this problem.
I hope my answer doesn't sound like, hey did you turn the thing on?

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021, 2:08 PM Peter Lovett <peter@...> wrote:
Hello all
 
I am amazed at the knowledge in this group. 
 
I have a simple issue and would be grateful if anyone has a solution. 
 
If I try to record audio over a backing track in BIAB 2020 for Mac, I can see the input from the mics but there is no output signal on the meter. I have no problems with any other recording platform I use and can’t find out how I seem to have switched off the output. The mixer shows I have the volumes turned up for audio. What am I missing here?  It is annoying if I have to export to a Daw to then record over tracks. 
 
Thank you in advance. 

Peter Lovett
+44(0)7768 603865
 


Re: Recording issue

Arthur Trinchera
 

Greetings,
I know you must have your mixer or interface chosen correctly in preferences. 
Definitely choose asio if you see it there, then correctly choose input and output. I'm not in front of Biab at the moment but have certainly had this problem.
I hope my answer doesn't sound like, hey did you turn the thing on?

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021, 2:08 PM Peter Lovett <peter@...> wrote:
Hello all
 
I am amazed at the knowledge in this group. 
 
I have a simple issue and would be grateful if anyone has a solution. 
 
If I try to record audio over a backing track in BIAB 2020 for Mac, I can see the input from the mics but there is no output signal on the meter. I have no problems with any other recording platform I use and can’t find out how I seem to have switched off the output. The mixer shows I have the volumes turned up for audio. What am I missing here?  It is annoying if I have to export to a Daw to then record over tracks. 
 
Thank you in advance. 

Peter Lovett
+44(0)7768 603865
 


Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

William Prentice
 

I understand how "tight" the MIDI sounds but don't see what makes it any easier.  I always try to re-record the MIDI track with a stereo mic setup just to add some "space" to the instrument.  I use a pair of monitors that I can mic in stereo for the MIDI track and then I also have the band playing along in the room so I get some bleed.  Seems worth all the effort and I end up with a MIDI tone that sounds more live.  

When I write a song, I start with a style I can work with. Then I start searching for the players that will be in the band...all such polite musicians...nobody ever complains when I tell their part is no longer needed.  Sometimes I find a fill instrument, maybe in swing time that will work while the song is in even 8.  The part may not be useable for the entire song but I regenerating the track until I find the parts that do work, freeze the track then export the audio so the player, playing what I want him to play, is always available.  This is where the creative fun begins.  When I have the first band assembled, record the vocals and whatever instruments I will add.  I then make a master mix on the vocal tracks, import the audio tracks back into BNAB and then end up with a few alternate mixes with different instruments...different styles, all singing with the same vocal-audio tracks. When it is all done, I have a few user BNAB styles not included with the purchase price and most of the time find an even better version of my song.  I do enjoy the entire process.  Love the higher sample rates!  Real Tracks or MIDI, it's all fun!

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021, 07:44:59 AM MST, Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...> wrote:


Another problem I have with Real Tracks is mixing and matching real
tracks that weren't meant to be played together.

With MIDI styles, the drum, bass, and comp tracks are composed as a
unit. They are meant to be played together so the timing of the drum and
bass, the swing factor, the groove, and everything else is precise, plus
the parts are meant to complement each other. And as David Bailey noted,
the endings are also meant to be played together.

Mixing and matching real tracks that weren't made to be played together
ls like a number of different musicians not listening to each other.

I have the same problem when substituting real drums with a MIDI style.
I've played both bass and drums in different bands, and one thing I know
is that the bassist and drummer should work together as if they are one
instrument. Accents, precise timing, and rhythm elements MUST be in sync
if you want a good, cohesive groove. Substituting and 'all-purpose' drum
track will destroy that.

And so many real styles have soloists in them, which in my opinion get
in the way of the melody of the song. It's nice for an instrumentalist
to add fills to complement and/or contrast to the melody, but that
player must listen to the melody, find the 'holes' in the melody to
fill, and then use taste and judgement to play an appropriate fill that
won't either overpower or distract from the melody. There is no way that
can be done in a style in advance without knowing the song that style is
going to be used for AND the phrasing the melody player will use. That's
why Norton MIDI style do not include these parts.

There are a lot of people who obviously love the real styles, and there
is nothing wrong with that. There is more than one right way to play
music. But I've been a pro musician all my life, I've played bass,
drums, guitar, keys, and wind instruments in bands, and I want the
styles to sound like they would if I were in the band playing with the
other instruments. I'm picky that way. I'd rather have the band as one
cohesive unit than a bunch of players with great tone playing great
lines but not listening to each other.

>>>»»»O«««<<<
Bob "Notes" Norton • owner, Norton Music • http://www.nortonmusic.com
BiaB user styles with live entered parts for that live music groove for
musicians who want BiaB to sound like real musicians and not robots.






Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

Another problem I have with Real Tracks is mixing and matching real tracks that weren't meant to be played together.

With MIDI styles, the drum, bass, and comp tracks are composed as a unit. They are meant to be played together so the timing of the drum and bass, the swing factor, the groove, and everything else is precise, plus the parts are meant to complement each other. And as David Bailey noted, the endings are also meant to be played together.

Mixing and matching real tracks that weren't made to be played together ls like a number of different musicians not listening to each other.

I have the same problem when substituting real drums with a MIDI style. I've played both bass and drums in different bands, and one thing I know is that the bassist and drummer should work together as if they are one instrument. Accents, precise timing, and rhythm elements MUST be in sync if you want a good, cohesive groove. Substituting and 'all-purpose' drum track will destroy that.

And so many real styles have soloists in them, which in my opinion get in the way of the melody of the song. It's nice for an instrumentalist to add fills to complement and/or contrast to the melody, but that player must listen to the melody, find the 'holes' in the melody to fill, and then use taste and judgement to play an appropriate fill that won't either overpower or distract from the melody. There is no way that can be done in a style in advance without knowing the song that style is going to be used for AND the phrasing the melody player will use. That's why Norton MIDI style do not include these parts.

There are a lot of people who obviously love the real styles, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is more than one right way to play music. But I've been a pro musician all my life, I've played bass, drums, guitar, keys, and wind instruments in bands, and I want the styles to sound like they would if I were in the band playing with the other instruments. I'm picky that way. I'd rather have the band as one cohesive unit than a bunch of players with great tone playing great lines but not listening to each other.

»»»O«««<<<
Bob "Notes" Norton • owner, Norton Music • http://www.nortonmusic.com
BiaB user styles with live entered parts for that live music groove for musicians who want BiaB to sound like real musicians and not robots.


Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

A problem with MIDI is that it's easier to make a bad MIDI file than a bad recorded audio file. You don't need microphones, pristine audio environments or the skill to actually play a musician instrument.

That means there are a lot of bad MIDI files out there.

For BiaB styles, most of PG Music, Norton Music, Roy Hawkesford and Sherry Mayrent MIDI styles are done well.

Notes

On 2/8/2021 3:41 PM, Sam Buttrey wrote:
I've enjoyed the helpful discussion regarding using BIAB's midi output (and a suitable sound source) vs. Real Tracks. Following Bob Norton, I don't object to losing a little purity of musical tone, in exchange for the convenience of Midi. But surely there's another aspect: that is, whether the Midi itself is well constructed. Even with an excellent sound module, some Midi files might well sound mechanical, by virtue of hyper-precise timing, no variability in velocities, and so on. I know Bob sells his own styles, and I'm sure they're excellent, but my question to anyone listening is, are the built-in BIAB styles generally rich enough in this sort of variation to sound like (excuse me) a real band? Are some genres generally better than others, or maybe are more recent styles better than older ones?
I appreciate any thoughts you might have,
Sam B. from near Monterey, CA

-- 
Bob "Notes" Norton
norton@...
Norton Music - http://www.nortonmusic.com
The Sophisticats® - http://www.s-cats.com


Patch 822 Now Available for BIAB 2021

Hayward Martin
 

Patch 822 for BIAB 2021 Available...
https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm


Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

D F Tweedie
 

Almost all competent DAWs contain MIDI plugins or features in the track headers to introduce 'humanizing' into the MIDI playback of a track. They do this by including parameters, for examples, that permit you to choose ranges for timing, note length, velocity, etc., in random manner that changes 'mechanical' note entry into something more interesting.

This does not take into account the additional 'massaging' that can be accomplished through a DAW's MIDI editor.

On Monday, February 8, 2021, 12:42:05 PM PST, Sam Buttrey <buttrey@...> wrote:


I've enjoyed the helpful discussion regarding using BIAB's midi output (and a suitable sound source) vs. Real Tracks. Following Bob Norton, I don't object to losing a little purity of musical tone, in exchange for the convenience of Midi. But surely there's another aspect: that is, whether the Midi itself is well constructed. Even with an excellent sound module, some Midi files might well sound mechanical, by virtue of hyper-precise timing, no variability in velocities, and so on. I know Bob sells his own styles, and I'm sure they're excellent, but my question to anyone listening is, are the built-in BIAB styles generally rich enough in this sort of variation to sound like (excuse me) a real band? Are some genres generally better than others, or maybe are more recent styles better than older ones?
I appreciate any thoughts you might have,
Sam B. from near Monterey, CA


Re: DAW

rob
 

Will do, thanks for your help.

-----Original Message-----
From: D F Tweedie via groups.io <bienpegaito=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2021 11:58 pm
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] DAW





Yes. Make sure you set the BPM in your DAW to the same BPM that you used to generate your song in BIAB.



Most DAWs default to a BPM of 120 which is used to determine the bar markers. Also, if you import the 'count off' from BIAB in the files you export to your DAW, your first bar will begin at 3 even if you have adjusted your BPM in your DAW to match your song's.


Just chop off the first two bars and slide your tracks to the left if you want the bars to be identical to what you see in your BIAB chord sheet.






On Sunday, February 7, 2021, 4:37:58 PM PST, rtambuscio via groups.io <rtambuscio=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:







After I have completed. writing a song in BIB with which includes bringing instruments in and out of the piece I then open up the DAW  and import it into Por Tools. However, when I play it back in the DAW it all the instruments play back ignoring the bar settings in BIB. Any suggestions?  

Thanks


Re: Soft synths

David H. Bailey <dhbailey@...>
 

Thanks, DF -- Joseph's message came through just before yours and I now have it working.

Great sounds!
David

On 2/8/2021 12:57 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
David ...
Open the GUI for Halion or Halion SE and across the top a little way down are multiple menus for things like 'Mixer,' etc. One of those is either called Options or Setup. Open that page and somewhere about 2/3rds down the page you will see some options for GM. After you set that it should automatically load the patches.
I'm doing this from memory or I'd be more precise in directions.
DF
On Monday, February 8, 2021, 8:04:23 AM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@comcast.net> wrote:
Thanks!  Found it and got it set with BIAB.
But no sounds come out.
When I run the standalone HalionSE app there are sounds from it.
How do we get it to automatically load the proper sounds into the proper
channels?  Or is this the sort of soft-synth where we have to load each
patch into each channel that we want?
Thank you very much for your help with this!
David
On 2/8/2021 10:29 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
> It can be a bit difficult to find the Halion .dll, In my case its
installed in my Cakewalk plugin folder.
> Try a drive search with Ultra search free, It’s a lot faster than
windows search, you can get it from the link below, it will install a shortcut to your mouse right click menu.
> https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free
<https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free>
>
> It may be that the dll is not installed at all, so in that case
download it from
> https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/
<https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/>
>
> I think that you will prefer it over the TTS-1 once you get it up and
running as a default synth in biab, you do need to select the GM in the Halion options GUI.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
<mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
> Sent: 08 February 2021 13:44
> To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
>
> I have Halion, I have Dorico (the full version).  I can see all the
Halion *.vstsound files -- I can not for the life of me find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file for BIAB to find.  Nor can I find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file to register following the instructions in another post for moving the TTS-1 folder to a different location, which I was able to do successfully.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> David
>
>
> On 2/8/2021 6:47 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
>> Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives
the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
<mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>> On
>> Behalf Of David H. Bailey
>> Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
>> To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
>>
>> On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
>> [snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase
>> throw in
>>> Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
>>> automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
>>> import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
>>> correct instruments per channel.
>>>
>>> There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells
separately.
>>> It has some additional functions and a very large collection of
>>> sounds beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very
>>> easily be auditioned in the case you might want something close to
>>> but more distinctive than the stock GM voice.
>>>
>> [snip]
>> But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David H. Bailey
>> dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
<mailto:dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
<http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *****
> David H. Bailey
> dhbailey52@comcast.net <mailto:dhbailey52@comcast.net>
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
<http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net <mailto:dhbailey52@comcast.net>
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Soft synths

David H. Bailey <dhbailey@...>
 

Thank you very much for your patience and for your explanation!

I finally have it working -- great sounds!

Thanks again!
David

On 2/8/2021 11:12 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
Go into options in Halion GUI, half way down there is program changes which will be set to off, Set to GM and hey presto hopefully you have sound, With band in a box 2020 there is no need to do anything else, that GM setting sticks every time I start biab. Hope it’s the same in 21.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 08 February 2021 16:04
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
Thanks! Found it and got it set with BIAB.
But no sounds come out.
When I run the standalone HalionSE app there are sounds from it.
How do we get it to automatically load the proper sounds into the proper channels? Or is this the sort of soft-synth where we have to load each patch into each channel that we want?
Thank you very much for your help with this!
David
On 2/8/2021 10:29 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
It can be a bit difficult to find the Halion .dll, In my case its installed in my Cakewalk plugin folder.
Try a drive search with Ultra search free, It’s a lot faster than windows search, you can get it from the link below, it will install a shortcut to your mouse right click menu.
https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free

It may be that the dll is not installed at all, so in that case
download it from https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/

I think that you will prefer it over the TTS-1 once you get it up and running as a default synth in biab, you do need to select the GM in the Halion options GUI.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On
Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 08 February 2021 13:44
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

I have Halion, I have Dorico (the full version). I can see all the Halion *.vstsound files -- I can not for the life of me find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file for BIAB to find. Nor can I find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file to register following the instructions in another post for moving the TTS-1 folder to a different location, which I was able to do successfully.

What am I missing?

David


On 2/8/2021 6:47 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On
Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
[snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase
throw in
Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
correct instruments per channel.

There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells separately.
It has some additional functions and a very large collection of
sounds beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very
easily be auditioned in the case you might want something close to
but more distinctive than the stock GM voice.
[snip]
But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?



--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com










--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com









--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Recording issue

Peter Lovett
 

Hello all
 
I am amazed at the knowledge in this group. 
 
I have a simple issue and would be grateful if anyone has a solution. 
 
If I try to record audio over a backing track in BIAB 2020 for Mac, I can see the input from the mics but there is no output signal on the meter. I have no problems with any other recording platform I use and can’t find out how I seem to have switched off the output. The mixer shows I have the volumes turned up for audio. What am I missing here?  It is annoying if I have to export to a Daw to then record over tracks. 
 
Thank you in advance. 

Peter Lovett
+44(0)7768 603865
 


Re: Band in a box songs

David H. Bailey
 

On 2/8/2021 4:38 PM, Connie Chiu via groups.io wrote:
Hi, there used to be folders with songs, A-Z, Christmas songs and so on. Where are they now?
[snip]

They are in the Files section of the Band-In-A-Box page at groups.io.

Here is the link:
<https://band-in-a-box.groups.io/g/main/files>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com

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