Date   

Re: Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

David H. Bailey
 

On 2/8/2021 3:41 PM, Sam Buttrey wrote:
I've enjoyed the helpful discussion regarding using BIAB's midi output (and a suitable sound source) vs. Real Tracks. Following Bob Norton, I don't object to losing a little purity of musical tone, in exchange for the convenience of Midi. But surely there's another aspect: that is, whether the Midi itself is well constructed. Even with an excellent sound module, some Midi files might well sound mechanical, by virtue of hyper-precise timing, no variability in velocities, and so on. I know Bob sells his own styles, and I'm sure they're excellent, but my question to anyone listening is, are the built-in BIAB styles generally rich enough in this sort of variation to sound like (excuse me) a real band? Are some genres generally better than others, or maybe are more recent styles better than older ones?
I appreciate any thoughts you might have,
[snip]

For years we could only use midi styles because that's all there were and I was very happy with them when using an external midi module or keyboard. Using the windows built-in fm synth they were horrible. It was the tone -- the timing was fine and when played with great sounds they sounded fine.

Then PGMusic started including the Coyote DXi soft-synth so that people who didn't have external modules/synths could have better sounds than the fm-synth built into most soundcards or the Windows fm-synth soft-synth.

Then PGMusic started using "Real Drums" because many people didn't like the possibly overly precise drums of the midi styls that PGMusic sold with BIAB. Then they branched out into "realtracks" of other instruments and kept on improving their technology and sampling methods and the algoriths of using the realtracks and realdrums until we get to these days when they work very nicely except that PGMusic hasn't quite figured out how to get the endings right the way they have with Midi styles. Many (most?) realstyles endings work fine but there are many where one or more of the realtracks keeps on playing as if they were played by an excellent musician who wasn't paying attention.

However not all the realstyless are the same as the midi styles, and there are some midi styles that I prefer to the comparable realstyles so I am extra glad that we've got good soft-synths to use so that I can continue to use those midi styles I like best along with realstyles I also like.

Having good softsynths to work with BIAB is especially important for me because I use BIAB a lot in my private lessons, which are all online now. I teach using either Zoom or Skype (I give my students their choice) and I share my computer's sound so that they can have backing tracks to play along with. For the past year I've been finding a comparable realstyle to use in place of the midi styles, and that grows old fast when I'm in the middle of a lesson. Which is why this whole discussion about soft-synths has been so great.

Now that I have the HalionSE installed and working, and have managed to separate TTS-1 from the Cakewalk installation so I can decide whether or not I want to uninstall Cakewal or keep it, I can use both midi styles or realstyles as I wish.

I appreciate all those who have participated in this discussion. I'm sure it's opened many people's minds to other possibilities than just using the realstyles.


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Band in a box songs

Connie Chiu
 

Hi, there used to be folders with songs, A-Z, Christmas songs and so on. Where are they now?

Thanks


Soft synths

David H. Bailey
 

Thanks, DF -- Joseph's message came through just before yours and I now have it working.

Great sounds!
David

On 2/8/2021 12:57 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
David ...
Open the GUI for Halion or Halion SE and across the top a little way down are multiple menus for things like 'Mixer,' etc. One of those is either called Options or Setup. Open that page and somewhere about 2/3rds down the page you will see some options for GM. After you set that it should automatically load the patches.
I'm doing this from memory or I'd be more precise in directions.
DF
On Monday, February 8, 2021, 8:04:23 AM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@comcast.net> wrote:
Thanks!  Found it and got it set with BIAB.
But no sounds come out.
When I run the standalone HalionSE app there are sounds from it.
How do we get it to automatically load the proper sounds into the proper
channels?  Or is this the sort of soft-synth where we have to load each
patch into each channel that we want?
Thank you very much for your help with this!
David
On 2/8/2021 10:29 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
> It can be a bit difficult to find the Halion .dll, In my case its
installed in my Cakewalk plugin folder.
> Try a drive search with Ultra search free, It’s a lot faster than
windows search, you can get it from the link below, it will install a shortcut to your mouse right click menu.
> https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free
<https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free>
>
> It may be that the dll is not installed at all, so in that case
download it from
> https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/
<https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/>
>
> I think that you will prefer it over the TTS-1 once you get it up and
running as a default synth in biab, you do need to select the GM in the Halion options GUI.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
<mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
> Sent: 08 February 2021 13:44
> To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
>
> I have Halion, I have Dorico (the full version).  I can see all the
Halion *.vstsound files -- I can not for the life of me find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file for BIAB to find.  Nor can I find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file to register following the instructions in another post for moving the TTS-1 folder to a different location, which I was able to do successfully.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> David
>
>
> On 2/8/2021 6:47 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
>> Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives
the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
<mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>> On
>> Behalf Of David H. Bailey
>> Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
>> To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <mailto:main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
>>
>> On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
>> [snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase
>> throw in
>>> Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
>>> automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
>>> import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
>>> correct instruments per channel.
>>>
>>> There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells
separately.
>>> It has some additional functions and a very large collection of
>>> sounds beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very
>>> easily be auditioned in the case you might want something close to
>>> but more distinctive than the stock GM voice.
>>>
>> [snip]
>> But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David H. Bailey
>> dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
<mailto:dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
<http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *****
> David H. Bailey
> dhbailey52@comcast.net <mailto:dhbailey52@comcast.net>
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
<http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net <mailto:dhbailey52@comcast.net>
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Midi vs Real Tracks (cont'd) #RealTracks

Sam Buttrey
 

I've enjoyed the helpful discussion regarding using BIAB's midi output (and a suitable sound source) vs. Real Tracks. Following Bob Norton, I don't object to losing a little purity of musical tone, in exchange for the convenience of Midi. But surely there's another aspect: that is, whether the Midi itself is well constructed. Even with an excellent sound module, some Midi files might well sound mechanical, by virtue of hyper-precise timing, no variability in velocities, and so on. I know Bob sells his own styles, and I'm sure they're excellent, but my question to anyone listening is, are the built-in BIAB styles generally rich enough in this sort of variation to sound like (excuse me) a real band? Are some genres generally better than others, or maybe are more recent styles better than older ones?
I appreciate any thoughts you might have,
Sam B. from near Monterey, CA


Soft synths

David H. Bailey
 

Thank you very much for your patience and for your explanation!

I finally have it working -- great sounds!

Thanks again!
David

On 2/8/2021 11:12 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
Go into options in Halion GUI, half way down there is program changes which will be set to off, Set to GM and hey presto hopefully you have sound, With band in a box 2020 there is no need to do anything else, that GM setting sticks every time I start biab. Hope it’s the same in 21.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 08 February 2021 16:04
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
Thanks! Found it and got it set with BIAB.
But no sounds come out.
When I run the standalone HalionSE app there are sounds from it.
How do we get it to automatically load the proper sounds into the proper channels? Or is this the sort of soft-synth where we have to load each patch into each channel that we want?
Thank you very much for your help with this!
David
On 2/8/2021 10:29 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
It can be a bit difficult to find the Halion .dll, In my case its installed in my Cakewalk plugin folder.
Try a drive search with Ultra search free, It’s a lot faster than windows search, you can get it from the link below, it will install a shortcut to your mouse right click menu.
https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free

It may be that the dll is not installed at all, so in that case
download it from https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/

I think that you will prefer it over the TTS-1 once you get it up and running as a default synth in biab, you do need to select the GM in the Halion options GUI.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On
Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 08 February 2021 13:44
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

I have Halion, I have Dorico (the full version). I can see all the Halion *.vstsound files -- I can not for the life of me find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file for BIAB to find. Nor can I find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file to register following the instructions in another post for moving the TTS-1 folder to a different location, which I was able to do successfully.

What am I missing?

David


On 2/8/2021 6:47 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On
Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
[snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase
throw in
Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
correct instruments per channel.

There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells separately.
It has some additional functions and a very large collection of
sounds beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very
easily be auditioned in the case you might want something close to
but more distinctive than the stock GM voice.
[snip]
But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?



--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com










--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com









--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Link to Cakewalk

Arthur Trinchera
 

Thank you Steve. Great point and I agree! I'll stick with Ableton,BIAB and Audacity. I want to get stuff done and not keep learning new programs!
Thanks again,
Arthur

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021, 8:12 AM Steve Thomas <stevet@...> wrote:

And ProTools First is really just a demo program. It's severely limited, designed to get you to see how Protools works before you buy it. 

The biggest cost of any DAW is the TIME you spend learning it.  Everyone likely has a different idea what that time entails, but I'd think spending 50 hours learning how to use the DAW of your choice is not out of the question (and still not MASTER it, just learn how to use it day in and day out).  So pick wisely, you really won't do that too many times.  The DAW you invest the time in upfront is likely what you'll use for quite some time.  So unless you really want to look at purchasing ProTools, I'd probably not look to deeply into ProTools First.


On 2/7/2021 11:19 AM, Arthur Trinchera wrote:
Thanks Steve. I guess Pro tools first is not compatible with Windows 10. I've installed it several times will my laptop and now with my brand new pc. It will install but crashes everytime before even getting to see the interface. Yesterday I read it's not yet compatible with 10. I'm letting go of it.
Arthur

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 5:43 PM Steve Thomas <stevet@...> wrote:

I've used ProTools before.  I did find it a bit easier to learn than Cakewalk.  And I have Ableton that came with my Scarlett too, but I never tried it.   DAWs in general have a fairly steep learning curve.  So for most of my general purpose sound recording and editing chores I've stayed with Audacity.  No, it's not a full DAW, but it does most of what I need and it is very easy to learn.

On 2/5/2021 5:31 PM, Arthur Trinchera wrote:
Do you use the free Pro Tools? I've tried to get it several times but got sound card errors every time I tried to install but that was on on my older cheap HP laptop. I just got a new beefy pc. Perhaps I should try again. You said you've tried many DAWS. Have you tried Ableton. How would it compare to Pro Tools? I have the lite version that came bundled with Scarlett 2i2.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 2:38 PM D F Tweedie via groups.io <bienpegaito=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I've used all the DAWs you mention before ultimately settling on Pro Tools and Cubase.

I found Cakewalk's Sonar to be the most convoluted and difficult to learn and soon left for greener pastures. If your goal is to master it you'd be well served to buy some of the 10 Sonar tutorial offerings on Groove3 ... or take a subscription. Here's a link to one offering.


On Friday, February 5, 2021, 1:15:23 PM PST, Steve Thomas <stevet@...> wrote:


It's been my thought for years that Cakewalk is a DAW with capabilities on par with other top DAWs like ProTools (but not as popular), PreSonus, Cubase, Reaper, Ableton, etc. But since it's free now, one might expect it to be simple to use and a bit less powerful, along the lines of Audacity.  But it's a full DAW, and the learning curve is steep.


Steve


On 2/5/2021 3:10 PM, Mr Dave wrote:
I downloaded and installed Cakewalk, but it doesn't seam to be very intuitive to use.
Does anyone have any ideas as to how to learn the program?

Dave



From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> on behalf of rob via groups.io <gibbing08@...>
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
Subject: [Band-In-A-Box] link to cakewalk
 
I don't know if anybody is interested but here is a link for cakewalk"https://www.cakewalk.com/Products"]https://www.cakewalk.com/Products[/a]I dowloaded it yesterday and it's okay but not for me .There are too many bells and whistles that i would never use                                                                                                                                                                          hope this is helpful                     rob !                                                                 
 
--

 
               Steve Thomas, EMT-P
                Executive Director


--

 
               Steve Thomas, EMT-P
                Executive Director


--

 
               Steve Thomas, EMT-P
                Executive Director



Re: DAW

D F Tweedie
 

Hi William ...

I think it depends on how you want to use it.

First, despite the poor quality of the Microsoft synth sounds, if you like the compositional/ arrangement features of existing BIAB MIDI styles you could render them with quality sounds of your own selection either from your hardware or from a softsynth. Once those MIDI files are imported into your DAW and you strip the patch change number from the file you can create your customized sounds for your productions.

Second and building off the first of liking the BIAB MIDI style, you can now also massage the MIDI notes themselves so to add variety to that instrument and the arrangement with pitch changes and all the wonder of CC parameters.

On Monday, February 8, 2021, 8:28:12 AM PST, William Prentice via groups.io <audioworksrecording@...> wrote:


Hello All!
I have never used MIDI with my BNAB.  I have updated my Audiophile Edition every year since 2013 and have used it live and for recording sessions When a style loads with a MIDI track, I select a Real Track instead.  Years ago I would record a SMPTE track to sync my multi-track analog recorder to an Atari 1040ST.  That way when mix day came all the MIDI tracks played live, in real time along with the recorded tape tracks.  I don't even have a MIDI interface in my studio these days....I have been thinking about getting a new USB audio interface with the MIDI in and out...Maybe a Presonus Studio 26C.  I still have many keyboards and sound modules...even a vintage Juno 106.  

My question:  What advantages would be gained by adding MIDI to my current setup?  Now I just record the keyboard parts into my DAW after rendering my BNAB to audio files.  I guess the Windows MIDI, Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth are not the highest quality sounds...not like a keyboards quality.  Maybe MIDI will open up a new area that I should explore?  Any thoughts?  Thanks



On Sunday, February 7, 2021, 05:37:43 PM MST, rtambuscio via groups.io <rtambuscio@...> wrote:


After I have completed. writing a song in BIB with which includes bringing instruments in and out of the piece I then open up the DAW  and import it into Por Tools. However, when I play it back in the DAW it all the instruments play back ignoring the bar settings in BIB. Any suggestions?  

Thanks


Re: Soft synths

D F Tweedie
 

David ...

Open the GUI for Halion or Halion SE and across the top a little way down are multiple menus for things like 'Mixer,' etc. One of those is either called Options or Setup. Open that page and somewhere about 2/3rds down the page you will see some options for GM. After you set that it should automatically load the patches.

I'm doing this from memory or I'd be more precise in directions.

DF

On Monday, February 8, 2021, 8:04:23 AM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> wrote:


Thanks!  Found it and got it set with BIAB.

But no sounds come out.

When I run the standalone HalionSE app there are sounds from it.

How do we get it to automatically load the proper sounds into the proper
channels?  Or is this the sort of soft-synth where we have to load each
patch into each channel that we want?

Thank you very much for your help with this!

David


On 2/8/2021 10:29 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
> It can be a bit difficult to find the Halion .dll, In my case its installed in my Cakewalk plugin folder.
> Try a drive search with Ultra search free, It’s a lot faster than windows search, you can get it from the link below, it will install a shortcut to your mouse right click menu.
> https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free
>
> It may be that the dll is not installed at all, so in that case download it from
> https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/
>
> I think that you will prefer it over the TTS-1 once you get it up and running as a default synth in biab, you do need to select the GM in the Halion options GUI.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
> Sent: 08 February 2021 13:44
> To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
>
> I have Halion, I have Dorico (the full version).  I can see all the Halion *.vstsound files -- I can not for the life of me find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file for BIAB to find.  Nor can I find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file to register following the instructions in another post for moving the TTS-1 folder to a different location, which I was able to do successfully.
>
> What am I missing?
>
> David
>
>
> On 2/8/2021 6:47 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
>> Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On
>> Behalf Of David H. Bailey
>> Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
>> To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
>>
>> On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
>> [snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase
>> throw in
>>> Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
>>> automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
>>> import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
>>> correct instruments per channel.
>>>
>>> There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells separately.
>>> It has some additional functions and a very large collection of
>>> sounds beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very
>>> easily be auditioned in the case you might want something close to
>>> but more distinctive than the stock GM voice.
>>>
>> [snip]
>> But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David H. Bailey
>> dhbailey@...
>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *****
> David H. Bailey
> dhbailey52@...
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Re: Link to Cakewalk

Robert Lohse <plumbbobby190@...>
 

do you know of any good BIAB tutorials on youtube?  I have been using BIAB when it was first a DOS program and then went to 3.1.  The 2020 version is daunting me now since my traumatic brain injury (TBI).  Any help would be appreciated.

On Monday, February 8, 2021, 10:12:58 AM CST, Steve Thomas <stevet@...> wrote:


And ProTools First is really just a demo program. It's severely limited, designed to get you to see how Protools works before you buy it. 

The biggest cost of any DAW is the TIME you spend learning it.  Everyone likely has a different idea what that time entails, but I'd think spending 50 hours learning how to use the DAW of your choice is not out of the question (and still not MASTER it, just learn how to use it day in and day out).  So pick wisely, you really won't do that too many times.  The DAW you invest the time in upfront is likely what you'll use for quite some time.  So unless you really want to look at purchasing ProTools, I'd probably not look to deeply into ProTools First.


On 2/7/2021 11:19 AM, Arthur Trinchera wrote:
Thanks Steve. I guess Pro tools first is not compatible with Windows 10. I've installed it several times will my laptop and now with my brand new pc. It will install but crashes everytime before even getting to see the interface. Yesterday I read it's not yet compatible with 10. I'm letting go of it.
Arthur

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 5:43 PM Steve Thomas <stevet@...> wrote:

I've used ProTools before.  I did find it a bit easier to learn than Cakewalk.  And I have Ableton that came with my Scarlett too, but I never tried it.   DAWs in general have a fairly steep learning curve.  So for most of my general purpose sound recording and editing chores I've stayed with Audacity.  No, it's not a full DAW, but it does most of what I need and it is very easy to learn.

On 2/5/2021 5:31 PM, Arthur Trinchera wrote:
Do you use the free Pro Tools? I've tried to get it several times but got sound card errors every time I tried to install but that was on on my older cheap HP laptop. I just got a new beefy pc. Perhaps I should try again. You said you've tried many DAWS. Have you tried Ableton. How would it compare to Pro Tools? I have the lite version that came bundled with Scarlett 2i2.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 2:38 PM D F Tweedie via groups.io <bienpegaito=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I've used all the DAWs you mention before ultimately settling on Pro Tools and Cubase.

I found Cakewalk's Sonar to be the most convoluted and difficult to learn and soon left for greener pastures. If your goal is to master it you'd be well served to buy some of the 10 Sonar tutorial offerings on Groove3 ... or take a subscription. Here's a link to one offering.


On Friday, February 5, 2021, 1:15:23 PM PST, Steve Thomas <stevet@...> wrote:


It's been my thought for years that Cakewalk is a DAW with capabilities on par with other top DAWs like ProTools (but not as popular), PreSonus, Cubase, Reaper, Ableton, etc. But since it's free now, one might expect it to be simple to use and a bit less powerful, along the lines of Audacity.  But it's a full DAW, and the learning curve is steep.


Steve


On 2/5/2021 3:10 PM, Mr Dave wrote:
I downloaded and installed Cakewalk, but it doesn't seam to be very intuitive to use.
Does anyone have any ideas as to how to learn the program?

Dave



From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> on behalf of rob via groups.io <gibbing08@...>
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
Subject: [Band-In-A-Box] link to cakewalk
 
I don't know if anybody is interested but here is a link for cakewalk"https://www.cakewalk.com/Products"]https://www.cakewalk.com/Products[/a]I dowloaded it yesterday and it's okay but not for me .There are too many bells and whistles that i would never use                                                                                                                                                                          hope this is helpful                     rob !                                                                 
 
--

 
               Steve Thomas, EMT-P
                Executive Director


--

 
               Steve Thomas, EMT-P
                Executive Director


--

 
               Steve Thomas, EMT-P
                Executive Director



Re: DAW

William Prentice
 

Hello All!
I have never used MIDI with my BNAB.  I have updated my Audiophile Edition every year since 2013 and have used it live and for recording sessions When a style loads with a MIDI track, I select a Real Track instead.  Years ago I would record a SMPTE track to sync my multi-track analog recorder to an Atari 1040ST.  That way when mix day came all the MIDI tracks played live, in real time along with the recorded tape tracks.  I don't even have a MIDI interface in my studio these days....I have been thinking about getting a new USB audio interface with the MIDI in and out...Maybe a Presonus Studio 26C.  I still have many keyboards and sound modules...even a vintage Juno 106.  

My question:  What advantages would be gained by adding MIDI to my current setup?  Now I just record the keyboard parts into my DAW after rendering my BNAB to audio files.  I guess the Windows MIDI, Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth are not the highest quality sounds...not like a keyboards quality.  Maybe MIDI will open up a new area that I should explore?  Any thoughts?  Thanks



On Sunday, February 7, 2021, 05:37:43 PM MST, rtambuscio via groups.io <rtambuscio@...> wrote:


After I have completed. writing a song in BIB with which includes bringing instruments in and out of the piece I then open up the DAW  and import it into Por Tools. However, when I play it back in the DAW it all the instruments play back ignoring the bar settings in BIB. Any suggestions?  

Thanks


Re: Link to Cakewalk

Steve Thomas
 

And ProTools First is really just a demo program. It's severely limited, designed to get you to see how Protools works before you buy it. 

The biggest cost of any DAW is the TIME you spend learning it.  Everyone likely has a different idea what that time entails, but I'd think spending 50 hours learning how to use the DAW of your choice is not out of the question (and still not MASTER it, just learn how to use it day in and day out).  So pick wisely, you really won't do that too many times.  The DAW you invest the time in upfront is likely what you'll use for quite some time.  So unless you really want to look at purchasing ProTools, I'd probably not look to deeply into ProTools First.


On 2/7/2021 11:19 AM, Arthur Trinchera wrote:
Thanks Steve. I guess Pro tools first is not compatible with Windows 10. I've installed it several times will my laptop and now with my brand new pc. It will install but crashes everytime before even getting to see the interface. Yesterday I read it's not yet compatible with 10. I'm letting go of it.
Arthur

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 5:43 PM Steve Thomas <stevet@...> wrote:

I've used ProTools before.  I did find it a bit easier to learn than Cakewalk.  And I have Ableton that came with my Scarlett too, but I never tried it.   DAWs in general have a fairly steep learning curve.  So for most of my general purpose sound recording and editing chores I've stayed with Audacity.  No, it's not a full DAW, but it does most of what I need and it is very easy to learn.

On 2/5/2021 5:31 PM, Arthur Trinchera wrote:
Do you use the free Pro Tools? I've tried to get it several times but got sound card errors every time I tried to install but that was on on my older cheap HP laptop. I just got a new beefy pc. Perhaps I should try again. You said you've tried many DAWS. Have you tried Ableton. How would it compare to Pro Tools? I have the lite version that came bundled with Scarlett 2i2.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 2:38 PM D F Tweedie via groups.io <bienpegaito=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I've used all the DAWs you mention before ultimately settling on Pro Tools and Cubase.

I found Cakewalk's Sonar to be the most convoluted and difficult to learn and soon left for greener pastures. If your goal is to master it you'd be well served to buy some of the 10 Sonar tutorial offerings on Groove3 ... or take a subscription. Here's a link to one offering.


On Friday, February 5, 2021, 1:15:23 PM PST, Steve Thomas <stevet@...> wrote:


It's been my thought for years that Cakewalk is a DAW with capabilities on par with other top DAWs like ProTools (but not as popular), PreSonus, Cubase, Reaper, Ableton, etc. But since it's free now, one might expect it to be simple to use and a bit less powerful, along the lines of Audacity.  But it's a full DAW, and the learning curve is steep.


Steve


On 2/5/2021 3:10 PM, Mr Dave wrote:
I downloaded and installed Cakewalk, but it doesn't seam to be very intuitive to use.
Does anyone have any ideas as to how to learn the program?

Dave



From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> on behalf of rob via groups.io <gibbing08@...>
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
Subject: [Band-In-A-Box] link to cakewalk
 
I don't know if anybody is interested but here is a link for cakewalk"https://www.cakewalk.com/Products"]https://www.cakewalk.com/Products[/a]I dowloaded it yesterday and it's okay but not for me .There are too many bells and whistles that i would never use                                                                                                                                                                          hope this is helpful                     rob !                                                                 
 
--

 
               Steve Thomas, EMT-P
                Executive Director


--

 
               Steve Thomas, EMT-P
                Executive Director


--

 
               Steve Thomas, EMT-P
                Executive Director



Re: Soft synths

joseph doherty
 

Go into options in Halion GUI, half way down there is program changes which will be set to off, Set to GM and hey presto hopefully you have sound, With band in a box 2020 there is no need to do anything else, that GM setting sticks every time I start biab. Hope it’s the same in 21.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 08 February 2021 16:04
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

Thanks! Found it and got it set with BIAB.

But no sounds come out.

When I run the standalone HalionSE app there are sounds from it.

How do we get it to automatically load the proper sounds into the proper channels? Or is this the sort of soft-synth where we have to load each patch into each channel that we want?

Thank you very much for your help with this!

David


On 2/8/2021 10:29 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
It can be a bit difficult to find the Halion .dll, In my case its installed in my Cakewalk plugin folder.
Try a drive search with Ultra search free, It’s a lot faster than windows search, you can get it from the link below, it will install a shortcut to your mouse right click menu.
https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free

It may be that the dll is not installed at all, so in that case
download it from https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/

I think that you will prefer it over the TTS-1 once you get it up and running as a default synth in biab, you do need to select the GM in the Halion options GUI.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On
Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 08 February 2021 13:44
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

I have Halion, I have Dorico (the full version). I can see all the Halion *.vstsound files -- I can not for the life of me find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file for BIAB to find. Nor can I find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file to register following the instructions in another post for moving the TTS-1 folder to a different location, which I was able to do successfully.

What am I missing?

David


On 2/8/2021 6:47 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On
Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
[snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase
throw in
Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
correct instruments per channel.

There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells separately.
It has some additional functions and a very large collection of
sounds beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very
easily be auditioned in the case you might want something close to
but more distinctive than the stock GM voice.
[snip]
But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?



--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com










--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com










--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Soft synths

David H. Bailey
 

Thanks! Found it and got it set with BIAB.

But no sounds come out.

When I run the standalone HalionSE app there are sounds from it.

How do we get it to automatically load the proper sounds into the proper channels? Or is this the sort of soft-synth where we have to load each patch into each channel that we want?

Thank you very much for your help with this!

David

On 2/8/2021 10:29 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
It can be a bit difficult to find the Halion .dll, In my case its installed in my Cakewalk plugin folder.
Try a drive search with Ultra search free, It’s a lot faster than windows search, you can get it from the link below, it will install a shortcut to your mouse right click menu.
https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free
It may be that the dll is not installed at all, so in that case download it from
https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/
I think that you will prefer it over the TTS-1 once you get it up and running as a default synth in biab, you do need to select the GM in the Halion options GUI.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 08 February 2021 13:44
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
I have Halion, I have Dorico (the full version). I can see all the Halion *.vstsound files -- I can not for the life of me find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file for BIAB to find. Nor can I find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file to register following the instructions in another post for moving the TTS-1 folder to a different location, which I was able to do successfully.
What am I missing?
David
On 2/8/2021 6:47 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On
Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
[snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase
throw in
Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
correct instruments per channel.

There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells separately.
It has some additional functions and a very large collection of
sounds beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very
easily be auditioned in the case you might want something close to
but more distinctive than the stock GM voice.
[snip]
But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?



--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com









--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Soft synths

joseph doherty
 

It can be a bit difficult to find the Halion .dll, In my case its installed in my Cakewalk plugin folder.
Try a drive search with Ultra search free, It’s a lot faster than windows search, you can get it from the link below, it will install a shortcut to your mouse right click menu.
https://www.jam-software.com/ultrasearch_free

It may be that the dll is not installed at all, so in that case download it from
https://new.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/se/

I think that you will prefer it over the TTS-1 once you get it up and running as a default synth in biab, you do need to select the GM in the Halion options GUI.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 08 February 2021 13:44
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

I have Halion, I have Dorico (the full version). I can see all the Halion *.vstsound files -- I can not for the life of me find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file for BIAB to find. Nor can I find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file to register following the instructions in another post for moving the TTS-1 folder to a different location, which I was able to do successfully.

What am I missing?

David


On 2/8/2021 6:47 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On
Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
[snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase
throw in
Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
correct instruments per channel.

There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells separately.
It has some additional functions and a very large collection of
sounds beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very
easily be auditioned in the case you might want something close to
but more distinctive than the stock GM voice.
[snip]
But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?



--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com










--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Soft synths

David H. Bailey
 

I have Halion, I have Dorico (the full version). I can see all the Halion *.vstsound files -- I can not for the life of me find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file for BIAB to find. Nor can I find a halion.dll or halionse.dll file to register following the instructions in another post for moving the TTS-1 folder to a different location, which I was able to do successfully.

What am I missing?

David

On 2/8/2021 6:47 AM, joseph doherty wrote:
Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.
-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths
On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
[snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase throw in
Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
correct instruments per channel.

There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells separately.
It has some additional functions and a very large collection of sounds
beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very easily be
auditioned in the case you might want something close to but more
distinctive than the stock GM voice.
[snip]
But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?
--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Soft synths

joseph doherty
 

Yes the Halion Se works good within Biab, My earlier message gives the links to the downloads, I much prefer it to the TTS-1.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> On Behalf Of David H. Bailey
Sent: 02 February 2021 18:31
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Band-In-A-Box] Soft synths

On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
[snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase throw in
Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you
import a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the
correct instruments per channel.

There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells separately.
It has some additional functions and a very large collection of sounds
beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very easily be
auditioned in the case you might want something close to but more
distinctive than the stock GM voice.
[snip]
But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?



--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: DAW

D F Tweedie
 

Yes. Make sure you set the BPM in your DAW to the same BPM that you used to generate your song in BIAB.

Most DAWs default to a BPM of 120 which is used to determine the bar markers. Also, if you import the 'count off' from BIAB in the files you export to your DAW, your first bar will begin at 3 even if you have adjusted your BPM in your DAW to match your song's.

Just chop off the first two bars and slide your tracks to the left if you want the bars to be identical to what you see in your BIAB chord sheet.

On Sunday, February 7, 2021, 4:37:58 PM PST, rtambuscio via groups.io <rtambuscio@...> wrote:


After I have completed. writing a song in BIB with which includes bringing instruments in and out of the piece I then open up the DAW  and import it into Por Tools. However, when I play it back in the DAW it all the instruments play back ignoring the bar settings in BIB. Any suggestions?  

Thanks


Re: Soft synth TTS-1

D F Tweedie
 

David ...

I think to be accurate we have to make a distinction between VST and VSTi with respect to your statement "most VST and DXi plugins are self-contained ..."

Your statement is generally accurate with respect to VSTs, but again, there are significant exceptions such as convolution reverbs which often have huge sample libraries from which the draw their impulse responses.

However, many if not the majority of VSTis (the 'i' stands for instrument) require additional content files that are not self-contained in their dll. The primary exception are 'synth' VSTis which rely upon algorithms, but even many of these uses samples that are not contained within the dll. Spectrasonics' Omnisphere is such an example.





On Sunday, February 7, 2021, 3:34:30 PM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey@...> wrote:


For the TTS-1 with all of its sounds, it's not a very big .dll so I am
guessing that somehow there is a library of sounds which is part of the
package but not installed in the same folder with the TTS-1.dll file.
And I am guessing that the .dll is searching for those data files for
the actual sounds using some sort of regressive tree structure rather
than specific paths but that's just a wild guess.

It matters not -- it only works from the original installation folder so
somehow it's linked to other files within that installation folder.

I know that most VST and DXi plugins are self-contained or at least have
all their data within the same local folder but apparently that's not
the case this time.

But at least now we know that the original installation needs to be kept
intact.  Unless someone with deeper knowledge of these things can find
out more.

In any event, I am very grateful for all this discussion and the
followup messages because I had basically written off using the MIDI
styles in my private lessons, since they're all online and I share my
computer's audio with my students so I can play BIAB files and they come
through my students' computers for them to practice playing jazz and
improvising with.  Now that I've got TTS-1 working so nicely with BIAB,
I can use MIDI styles and don't have to search for substitute realstyles
before playing the songs for my students.

It's been a real eye-opener, Thanks everybody!
David


On 2/6/2021 7:49 AM, IAN GRAHAM via groups.io wrote:
> Thanks, David.
>
> That sounds very much as if there is a deliberate spoiler in there
> somewhere - my experience is that *.dll soundfonts are usually very
> tolerant of being copied around, provided the computer recognises them.
> i.e. Some need a specific installation, many don't.
>
> Cheers
>
> Ian G.
>
>
> On 06/02/2021 12:33, David H. Bailey wrote:
>> On 2/5/2021 10:19 PM, IAN GRAHAM via groups.io wrote:
>>> Can I confirm if I'm understanding this right ? The following summary
>>> is partly what has already been said, and partly based on my own
>>> experience, and what I've read online:
>>>
>>> TTS-1 is a fairly elderly but quite respected GM softsynth. It
>>> currently comes bundled with Bandcamp.
>>>
>>> What this means is that there is a TTS-1.dll somewhere in the
>>> Bandcamp package.
>>>
>>> Can this, therefore, once found, be used independently of Bandcamp
>>> i.e. imported into Biab directly, or made standalone with something
>>> like Savihost or Nanohost ?
>>>
>>
>> The location of the .dll file is C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Shared
>> DXi\TTS-1
>>
>> Once Cakewalk is installed, I tried copying the TTS-1 folder to a
>> different hard drive, then renamed the folder it was inside of so that
>> BIAB wouldn't be able to find it in the old location.  Then I had BIAB
>> search for new plugins.  Apparently the TTS-1 synth only works when it
>> is in its original installation folder.  There must be other files
>> that it looks for in specific folders relative to where it is
>> installed, so it has to remain within the Cakewalk installation.
>>
>> But for most people it's not a big deal since hard-drives these days
>> are so cheap and large that installing Cakewalk and not using it other
>> than to have the TTS-1 soft-synth available for use in BIAB.
>>
>> I can't say whether it could be used as a standalone in Savihost or
>> Nanohost, but apparently it can't be used at all if not in the
>> original installation location.
>>
>
>
>
>
>


--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Re: Soft synths

D F Tweedie
 

Any VSTi that is properly installed and registered with the operating system (thank you, Ron!) will work with BIAB ... even ones that aren't GM Modules.

You could set up Kontakt in BIAB with it's 4 16 channel MIDI ports and pick your own patches to mirror or improve the GM standard patches.

The only limitation on using a VSTi in BIAB is that you can only use one instantiation at a time. So practically speaking you are limited to instruments that are multi-timbral, that is capable of playing on more than one channel at a time. But strictly speaking they do not have to be GM compatible if you know what instrument patch the specific MIDI channel calls for. You can then, for an example, roll your own 'Grand Piano.'

To continue my 'CD Player' and 'CD' metaphor, the CD Player doesn't care which outlet you plug it into ... assuming compatible operating system and host (e.g., AU plugins don't work on Windows and AAX plugins only work in Pro Tools).

On Sunday, February 7, 2021, 3:32:39 PM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey@...> wrote:


On 2/2/2021 1:01 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
[snip]> @David ... Steinberg's entry level and up versions of Cubase
throw in
> Halion SE (Halion Special Edition), which includes a feature to
> automatically open in GM mode with full soundset. That is, if you import
> a MIDI file and instantiate Halion SE, it will load with the correct
> instruments per channel.
>
> There is also an advanced, full version of Halion that sells separately.
> It has some additional functions and a very large collection of sounds
> beyond GM which are categorized in such a way as to very easily be
> auditioned in the case you might want something close to but more
> distinctive than the stock GM voice.
>
[snip]
But can the Halion SE be used as a soft-synth within BIAB?



--
David H. Bailey
dhbailey@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






DAW

rob
 

After I have completed. writing a song in BIB with which includes bringing instruments in and out of the piece I then open up the DAW  and import it into Por Tools. However, when I play it back in the DAW it all the instruments play back ignoring the bar settings in BIB. Any suggestions?  

Thanks

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