Date   

BIAB 2021 - Bailey's first impressions

David H. Bailey
 

What follows is my first impressions. These are my opinions and experiences only and others may have opposing views.

My first impressions of BIAB2021 are: It's barely a Beta version, let alone a full version presentable to the public! With the original release just barely a week in people's hands they already have an update! What does that say about how ready the release version really was?

The great thing is that there was an update -- the bad thing is that they needed it so quickly.

This is the slowest version of BIAB to load and get to usable status I've ever used. Every second time I try to use it, it takes quite a long time to load and finally get to the main BIAB screen.

The initial installation was very slow and took far longer than the message that was to the effect that "including all the styles may take up to an hour" -- it was more like 3 hours to complete the installation.

I had a very frustrating time doing the upgrade yesterday evening. After the upgrade completed (second try) I was trying to use BIAB2021 in a music lesson and I couldn't change the style because there was a popup message telling me I needed to rebuild the styles list. After an upgrade? I had rebuilt the styles list as expected when I installed BIAB2021, so why would I need to rebuild it again? Crazy. I always do the "slow rebuild" because I have a lot of aftermarket styles (many of Bob Norton's as well as others that he sells) so I always want to have all my styles included. It took SOOOOOOOOO damn long to rebuild that styles list, meanwhile BIAB was useless. Luckily I have lots of audio files so I was able to work with my student on improvising but it was very frustrating. In previous versions, with just a couple hundred fewer styles (however many PG added with the UltraPak+ upgrade) it took far less time.

This is also the slowest version of BIAB to shut down -- while that isn't really a bad thing, I think it may be indicative of programming problems that they felt they had to release the program with anyway. Closing the program should be instantaneous. Not so with BIAB2021. My computer is the same one which just over a week ago was using BIAB2020 with none of this hassle.

Compiling songs using RealStyles takes far longer than it ever has before. Using a style which includes a soloist takes FOREVER to get to actually starting to play the song. It's always taken longer using RealStyles than using Midi styles because of the audio it had to generate but it's added another minute with 2021. That will make this not such a great thing to try to use live. Playing live with it would be an embarassment. I can hear myself (if I were to try to use it live) saying "And now I'll play After You've Gone." And sitting and sitting staring at the audience and glancing at the screen and finally getting to the point where I would be able to say "Well, NOW I'll play After You've Gone."

I have to say my first impressions are very unfavorable.

I was just playing through some of the styles and found one called _JORGNBS with the style name being "Jazz Organ No Bass." I listened to the demo which includes a very nice acoustic upright bass line. I wonder who thought it was a good thing to label it "No Bass." Now maybe they tried to indicate that the jazz organ part doesn't include any bass played on the bass pedals of the organ, but to me "No Bass" should mean what it says -- there is no bass at all! Certainly doesn't build confidence in any of the style names being accurate!

One thing I wish PG would do would be to release two versions of styles they fell compelled to include with a built-in soloist, same name just one would include "With Soloist" and the other would include "No Soloist."

Why they include styles with built-in soloists escapes me. If I'm going to play trumpet using BIAB for backing, I don't want an alto sax noodling up and down for the entire length of the song. That negates my ability to include a soloist if I wanted to, say for one of the middle choruses as variety. I can find no way to remove a soloist from a RealStyle that includes a soloist. Yes, I can mute it but why waste time having BIAB2021 compile a song with a soloist that I won't allow to be heard? There's no way to avoid it, other than to never use a style that includes s soloist. Which is too bad, because some of them minus the soloist are quite good. And the inclusion of a soloist in a RealStyle complicates the compiling of the accompaniment and adds significantly to the time needed after clicking the Play icon to when BIAB actually starts making sounds.

At this point my advice is that if you don't have need of the new styles there's no compelling reason to upgrade to 2021. It adds nothing special -- the new expanded mixer really doesn't add a lot. The tracks that can be added to the basic five tracks (bass, piano, drums, guitar, strings) are the Melody, Soloist, Thru, Audio tracks and then you can choose from a long list of "Utility #1" "Utility #2" up through "Utility #16" to a total of 22 tracks. The Utility tracks can be used for anything, but I get the impression they are mainly intended for adding additional audio tracks.
For my uses of BIAB this expanded mixer adds nothing of value.

Giving a selective tryout to the new RealStyles in 2021 makes me scratch my head and wonder who assigns the "Genre" tag to these styles? Going through the "Celtic" styles, I find that most of them do not fit my concept of true "Celtic" music, which would be styles suitable for playing jigs, hornpipes, reels, slip-jigs, other tunes found in fiddling books. They may fit the concept that might be called "Celtic Rock" meaning "In the style of Irish groups who are working hard not to sound Irish." The same goes for styles in the "Soul" genre -- Soul to me means styles suitable for accompanying songs made famous by Aretha, Smokey Robinson, Marvin Gaye, the Four Tops, the Temptations, the entire Motown stable of artists and many fine Atlantic recording artists. Unfortunately most of the included new "Soul" styles seem more suitable for country and pop songs.

I hope that PGMusic has another update soon that will alleviate some more of the challenges in this initial release and initial update.

I pity the poor first time user who runs into these frustrations. If things don't improve, I'm going to re-install BIAB 2020.

If anybody else who has upgraded to 2021 has any insights that might help alleviate my aggravations, I would love to hear/read them.

I will be checking out the videos that PGMusic has posted at youtube about the new stuff in 2021, and will be sending a followup message to this initial impressions message in a few days or a week.

David H. Bailey

On 12/7/2020 5:08 PM, rob via groups.io wrote:
Well, I have got the full version of biad 2021 downloaded on my computer . I had some problems getting it installed but they have expert customer service . Just want to add my 2 cents on guitar strings.For my classical guitar, i use augistino stings religiously        ps will tell you how i like 2021 in future posts               pss nice to be part of this group                               rob !
On Monday, December 7, 2020, 03:28:52 p.m. EST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@comcast.net> wrote:
I've installed it, but life has gotten in the way of my actually sitting
down with it and trying to put it through its paces.
What I have done seems to be little changed from 2020, but I haven't
worked with the new mixer window (I'm looking at the old mixer window
which just shows the normal BIAB tracks).
I hope this weekend I'll be able to do more with it.
I'll post what my findings are once I've been able to do that.
Thanks,
David
On 12/7/2020 3:01 PM, Hayward Martin wrote:
> I don't know how many people have installed and tried the new 2021
> Version of Band in a Box, but I've seen little to no feedback here/
>
> I have yet to figure out the new mixer. The volume controls appear to
> move up and down on their own, with bar changes such as mute or "change
> by", etc.
> And, if I try to make a change to the volume, it doesn't stick!   I must
> be missing something, or I'm just spooked!
>
> Also, as an FYI, there is an update to build 804 available, on the
> PGMusic.com website, or through the "Check for Updates" in the BIAB
> Menu.   It adds the ability to generate Real Tracks directly on the new
> Utility Tracks.
>
> Hope to hear from some other members as to what they are encountering.
>
> Hayward
>
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net <mailto:dhbailey52@comcast.net>
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Drum Notation - BIAB 2021 Release

Clifton Davis
 

I'm away from my BIAB computer for a few days, but as I recall from a version a few years back, you go into Options/Settings/Real Tracks and check a box that says Save the Realcharts as Midi or something like that.  You would think this would be an option under real drums, but it isn't.  Anyway, a number of the Real charts don't match the corresponding Real Sounds very closely so you will want to watch for that.  I hope this isn't something that my mind is making up, but I want to say this worked on Drums as well as normal Realchart stuff.  For a long while PG Music was counting the Realchart styles in with their count of Midi styles and for all I know they may still be doing so.

- Clif


On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 10:48 AM D F Tweedie via groups.io <bienpegaito=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Something I guess I'm going to have to keep on wishing for is individual tracks for the RealDrum kits. I'd like to be able to process kick, snare, hats, toms, overheads and room separately.

With that in mind I'm wondering if the RealCharts 'drum notation' means something that can be translated to a MIDI file within the program so that you could export it and generate a version with a drum VSTi.

If someone know, please reply.

On Sunday, November 29, 2020, 6:25:30 AM PST, Roy Robinson via groups.io <robinson_yh2=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


here's a quick top three, in no order

  • all RealDrums have RealCharts (with accurate Drum Notation 
  • Mixer has been improved with many customizable display options 
  • Chord Sheet has been improved with new zoom buttons and time signature display on the part marker
  • 16 new editable Utility tracks, which can be used for audio and/or MIDI.
@DavidBailey  I heard shipping starts about Dec 8th


Re: BIAB 2021 Feedback...

rob
 


Well, I have got the full version of biad 2021 downloaded on my computer . I had some problems getting it installed but they have expert customer service . Just want to add my 2 cents on guitar strings.For my classical guitar, i use augistino stings religiously        ps will tell you how i like 2021 in future posts               pss nice to be part of this group                               rob ! 

On Monday, December 7, 2020, 03:28:52 p.m. EST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> wrote:


I've installed it, but life has gotten in the way of my actually sitting
down with it and trying to put it through its paces.

What I have done seems to be little changed from 2020, but I haven't
worked with the new mixer window (I'm looking at the old mixer window
which just shows the normal BIAB tracks).

I hope this weekend I'll be able to do more with it.

I'll post what my findings are once I've been able to do that.

Thanks,
David


On 12/7/2020 3:01 PM, Hayward Martin wrote:
> I don't know how many people have installed and tried the new 2021
> Version of Band in a Box, but I've seen little to no feedback here/
>
> I have yet to figure out the new mixer. The volume controls appear to
> move up and down on their own, with bar changes such as mute or "change
> by", etc.
> And, if I try to make a change to the volume, it doesn't stick!   I must
> be missing something, or I'm just spooked!
>
> Also, as an FYI, there is an update to build 804 available, on the
> PGMusic.com website, or through the "Check for Updates" in the BIAB
> Menu.   It adds the ability to generate Real Tracks directly on the new
> Utility Tracks.
>
> Hope to hear from some other members as to what they are encountering.
>
> Hayward
>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Re: BIAB 2021 Feedback...

David H. Bailey
 

I've installed it, but life has gotten in the way of my actually sitting down with it and trying to put it through its paces.

What I have done seems to be little changed from 2020, but I haven't worked with the new mixer window (I'm looking at the old mixer window which just shows the normal BIAB tracks).

I hope this weekend I'll be able to do more with it.

I'll post what my findings are once I've been able to do that.

Thanks,
David

On 12/7/2020 3:01 PM, Hayward Martin wrote:
I don't know how many people have installed and tried the new 2021 Version of Band in a Box, but I've seen little to no feedback here/
I have yet to figure out the new mixer. The volume controls appear to move up and down on their own, with bar changes such as mute or "change by", etc.
And, if I try to make a change to the volume, it doesn't stick!   I must be missing something, or I'm just spooked!
Also, as an FYI, there is an update to build 804 available, on the PGMusic.com website, or through the "Check for Updates" in the BIAB Menu.   It adds the ability to generate Real Tracks directly on the new Utility Tracks.
Hope to hear from some other members as to what they are encountering.
Hayward
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: BIAB 2021 Feedback...

rob
 


I downloaded it yesterday (biab2021) got biab but I still have real band 2020.I will let you all know how it goes                                                            rob ! 

On Monday, December 7, 2020, 03:01:40 p.m. EST, Hayward Martin <haywardmartin@...> wrote:


I don't know how many people have installed and tried the new 2021 Version of Band in a Box, but I've seen little to no feedback here/

I have yet to figure out the new mixer. The volume controls appear to move up and down on their own, with bar changes such as mute or "change by", etc.   
And, if I try to make a change to the volume, it doesn't stick!   I must be missing something, or I'm just spooked!

Also, as an FYI, there is an update to build 804 available, on the PGMusic.com website, or through the "Check for Updates" in the BIAB Menu.   It adds the ability to generate Real Tracks directly on the new Utility Tracks.

Hope to hear from some other members as to what they are encountering.

Hayward


BIAB 2021 Feedback...

Hayward Martin
 

I don't know how many people have installed and tried the new 2021 Version of Band in a Box, but I've seen little to no feedback here/

I have yet to figure out the new mixer. The volume controls appear to move up and down on their own, with bar changes such as mute or "change by", etc.   
And, if I try to make a change to the volume, it doesn't stick!   I must be missing something, or I'm just spooked!

Also, as an FYI, there is an update to build 804 available, on the PGMusic.com website, or through the "Check for Updates" in the BIAB Menu.   It adds the ability to generate Real Tracks directly on the new Utility Tracks.

Hope to hear from some other members as to what they are encountering.

Hayward


Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

tjzeschke@...
 

I downloaded the latest Ultrapak, and installed it in  my 2020 biab hd. Took a few hours to update the styles, but only had to download 352- 370 something. The rest was already on my old hd. Love the new cinematic metal guitars.


Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

David H. Bailey
 

On 12/3/2020 11:43 PM, Cesar Pompeo wrote:
Dear all,
In my opinion, you may use Biab the way you want, but it can't do a job greater than a computer skill to help YOU do music.
To be sure you're doing the right thing, compare the time you spend on working at the computer to the time you're really playing. Forget the time spent on doing other jobs like making adjustments to Biab in order to get a better sound, you have only to answer two questions:
- How good do you do your job on playing?
- Are you ready to play with some other musicians and make it sounds a creation even if it's a standard played year after year by hundreds of musicians?
Someone told me not to send any kind of message at the time I'd be better sleeping. What's your impression about this?
[snip]


All valid points. Except the one about be better sleeping than sending any kind of message "at the time I'd be better sleeping."

Not all of us get good nights' sleep. I frequently wake up early and can't get back to sleep. Far too early to be playing my instruments because others in the house are still asleep. So that's a perfect time to be sending messages.

Or tweaking BIAB settings or song arrangements, using headphones.

Keeping our playing fresh is always an important and challenging thing to be doing. For many of us who use BIAB, we don't have groups of other musicians to play with. Me for example -- I teach private music lessons and repair woodwind and brass instruments to earn my living. Lessons must be taught when students are available which is from mid-afternoon into the later evening hours. And those evening hours are when other musicians who have 9-5 day jobs are available. Add to that the fact that there are not a lot of live music gigs around my area and thus the only combo playing I get is working with BIAB.

I also use BIAB a lot in my private lessons since the students I teach generally do not have jazz combos who play very well to play with. So creating BIAB backing tracks for them to play with and practice improvising with is very important.

With all of that, I need to spend a lot of time using BIAB and less time playing, since my livelihood depends on how good a private teacher I am.

The ultimate point is that there is no "one size fits all" in this wonderful musical life we're all trying to live, whether as professionals like Bob Norton, Jim Mings and some others, or as amateurs playing for our own enjoyment or entertaining small groups of our family and friends occasionally.


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

mike copeland
 

Totally agree with Cesar, as a musician, spending time playing is what is all about. That said, there are many people who enjoy tinkering with the computer as their version of “playing “ and there is nothing wrong with that.  I have used BIAB to support my playing, offer an outlook for different styles I had not considered and it never gets tired of me wanting to play the same piece ad infinitum.  BIAB has made me a better musician playing live or in front of the computer.  

Michael Copeland

On Dec 3, 2020, at 8:00 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io <bienpegaito@...> wrote:


Spoken as a true musician, Cesar  ... but the world needs instrument makers, engineers, computer coders and a whole other host of things in addition. :)

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 8:43:36 PM PST, Cesar Pompeo <capompeo@...> wrote:


Dear all,

In my opinion, you may use Biab the way you want, but it can't do a job greater than a computer skill to help YOU do music. 

To be sure you're doing the right thing, compare the time you spend on working at the computer to the time you're really playing. Forget the time spent on doing other jobs like making adjustments to Biab in order to get a better sound, you have only to answer two questions:

- How good do you do your job on playing? 

- Are you ready to play with some other musicians and make it sounds a creation even if it's a standard played year after year by hundreds of musicians?

Someone told me not to send any kind of message at the time I'd be better sleeping. What's your impression about this?

Regards!




Em qui, 3 de dez de 2020 19:39, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> escreveu:
I'm kinda busy now, too.  Installing the new BIAB.  :)

I'd much rather let BIAB do the heavy lifting in making these arrangements.

I do appreciate you figuring out a way to use these wma files outside of
BIAB, complicated though it might be.

Thanks!
David




On 12/3/2020 5:04 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)
>
> But you can do it for free.
>
> Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
>       
>
>
>     Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
>
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
> Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one
> single bass lick ..."
>
> Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack
> set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and
> possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose
> your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each
> as we all know from 'regenerate.'
>
> But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if
> you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.
>
> DF
>
> On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey
> <dhbailey52@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi DF,
>
> I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
> using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
> style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).
>
> So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
> version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
> accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
> 2 bar ending)?
>
> Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.
>
> I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
> play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
> mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
> being played over and over again.
>
> If you can do it, great.
>
> I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
> nature of what you're describing.
>
> Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
> intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
> work from there.
>
> But as you say, it's possible . . .
>
> Thanks for outlining how it could be done!
>
>
> On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
>  > David ...
>  >
>  > I'll take you up on your challenge!
>  >
>  > Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
>  > either as WMA or Wav files.
>  >
>  > Laborious, but technically easy.
>  >
>  > You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
>  > program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
>  > accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>  >
>  > It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
>  > other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>  >
>  > Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
>  > identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
>  > file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
>  > (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
>  > passage could be recorded in.
>  >
>  > So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
>  > Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
>  > one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>  >
>  > This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
>  > section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
>  > results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>  >
>  > As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
>  > tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
>  > for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
>  > into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
>  > from up or down.
>  >
> [snp]
>
> --
> *****
> David H. Bailey
> dhbailey52@... <mailto:dhbailey52@...>
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

D F Tweedie
 

Spoken as a true musician, Cesar  ... but the world needs instrument makers, engineers, computer coders and a whole other host of things in addition. :)

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 8:43:36 PM PST, Cesar Pompeo <capompeo@...> wrote:


Dear all,

In my opinion, you may use Biab the way you want, but it can't do a job greater than a computer skill to help YOU do music. 

To be sure you're doing the right thing, compare the time you spend on working at the computer to the time you're really playing. Forget the time spent on doing other jobs like making adjustments to Biab in order to get a better sound, you have only to answer two questions:

- How good do you do your job on playing? 

- Are you ready to play with some other musicians and make it sounds a creation even if it's a standard played year after year by hundreds of musicians?

Someone told me not to send any kind of message at the time I'd be better sleeping. What's your impression about this?

Regards!




Em qui, 3 de dez de 2020 19:39, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> escreveu:
I'm kinda busy now, too.  Installing the new BIAB.  :)

I'd much rather let BIAB do the heavy lifting in making these arrangements.

I do appreciate you figuring out a way to use these wma files outside of
BIAB, complicated though it might be.

Thanks!
David




On 12/3/2020 5:04 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)
>
> But you can do it for free.
>
> Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
>       
>
>
>     Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
>
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
> Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one
> single bass lick ..."
>
> Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack
> set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and
> possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose
> your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each
> as we all know from 'regenerate.'
>
> But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if
> you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.
>
> DF
>
> On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey
> <dhbailey52@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi DF,
>
> I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
> using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
> style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).
>
> So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
> version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
> accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
> 2 bar ending)?
>
> Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.
>
> I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
> play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
> mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
> being played over and over again.
>
> If you can do it, great.
>
> I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
> nature of what you're describing.
>
> Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
> intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
> work from there.
>
> But as you say, it's possible . . .
>
> Thanks for outlining how it could be done!
>
>
> On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
>  > David ...
>  >
>  > I'll take you up on your challenge!
>  >
>  > Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
>  > either as WMA or Wav files.
>  >
>  > Laborious, but technically easy.
>  >
>  > You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
>  > program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
>  > accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>  >
>  > It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
>  > other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>  >
>  > Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
>  > identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
>  > file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
>  > (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
>  > passage could be recorded in.
>  >
>  > So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
>  > Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
>  > one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>  >
>  > This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
>  > section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
>  > results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>  >
>  > As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
>  > tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
>  > for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
>  > into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
>  > from up or down.
>  >
> [snp]
>
> --
> *****
> David H. Bailey
> dhbailey52@... <mailto:dhbailey52@...>
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

Cesar Pompeo
 

Dear all,

In my opinion, you may use Biab the way you want, but it can't do a job greater than a computer skill to help YOU do music. 

To be sure you're doing the right thing, compare the time you spend on working at the computer to the time you're really playing. Forget the time spent on doing other jobs like making adjustments to Biab in order to get a better sound, you have only to answer two questions:

- How good do you do your job on playing? 

- Are you ready to play with some other musicians and make it sounds a creation even if it's a standard played year after year by hundreds of musicians?

Someone told me not to send any kind of message at the time I'd be better sleeping. What's your impression about this?

Regards!




Em qui, 3 de dez de 2020 19:39, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> escreveu:

I'm kinda busy now, too.  Installing the new BIAB.  :)

I'd much rather let BIAB do the heavy lifting in making these arrangements.

I do appreciate you figuring out a way to use these wma files outside of
BIAB, complicated though it might be.

Thanks!
David




On 12/3/2020 5:04 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)
>
> But you can do it for free.
>
> Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
>       
>
>
>     Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
>
> <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
>
> Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one
> single bass lick ..."
>
> Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack
> set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and
> possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose
> your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each
> as we all know from 'regenerate.'
>
> But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if
> you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.
>
> DF
>
> On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey
> <dhbailey52@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi DF,
>
> I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
> using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
> style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).
>
> So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
> version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
> accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
> 2 bar ending)?
>
> Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.
>
> I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
> play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
> mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
> being played over and over again.
>
> If you can do it, great.
>
> I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
> nature of what you're describing.
>
> Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
> intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
> work from there.
>
> But as you say, it's possible . . .
>
> Thanks for outlining how it could be done!
>
>
> On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
>  > David ...
>  >
>  > I'll take you up on your challenge!
>  >
>  > Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
>  > either as WMA or Wav files.
>  >
>  > Laborious, but technically easy.
>  >
>  > You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
>  > program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
>  > accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>  >
>  > It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
>  > other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>  >
>  > Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
>  > identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
>  > file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
>  > (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
>  > passage could be recorded in.
>  >
>  > So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
>  > Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
>  > one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>  >
>  > This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
>  > section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
>  > results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>  >
>  > As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
>  > tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
>  > for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
>  > into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
>  > from up or down.
>  >
> [snp]
>
> --
> *****
> David H. Bailey
> dhbailey52@... <mailto:dhbailey52@...>
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

David H. Bailey
 

I'm kinda busy now, too. Installing the new BIAB. :)

I'd much rather let BIAB do the heavy lifting in making these arrangements.

I do appreciate you figuring out a way to use these wma files outside of BIAB, complicated though it might be.

Thanks!
David

On 12/3/2020 5:04 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)
But you can do it for free.
Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com <https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>

Free Online Pitch Shifter | OnlineToneGenerator.com
<https://onlinetonegenerator.com/pitch-shifter.html>
Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one single bass lick ..."
Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each as we all know from 'regenerate.'
But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.
DF
On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi DF,
I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).
So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
2 bar ending)?
Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.
I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
being played over and over again.
If you can do it, great.
I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
nature of what you're describing.
Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
work from there.
But as you say, it's possible . . .
Thanks for outlining how it could be done!
On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> David ...
>
> I'll take you up on your challenge!
>
> Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
> either as WMA or Wav files.
>
> Laborious, but technically easy.
>
> You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
> program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
> accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>
> It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
> other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>
> Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
> identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
> file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
> (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
> passage could be recorded in.
>
> So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
> Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
> one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>
> This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
> section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
> results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>
> As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
> tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
> for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
> into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
> from up or down.
>
[snp]
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net <mailto:dhbailey52@comcast.net>
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com <http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com>
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

D F Tweedie
 

Ahhh ... sorry, I'm busy right now. :)

But you can do it for free.



Just one further comment in regard to your "we don't have to hear one single bass lick ..."

Yes of course among the different lines within the specific RealTrack set, there are multiple variations each for both verse and chorus and possibly intros ... which BIAB presents intelligently when you compose your song and chord structures. Clearly there are multiple ones of each as we all know from 'regenerate.'

But all those identical samples are there to be stitched together if you'd care to do so by ear and my Ludditic method.

DF

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 12:13:21 PM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> wrote:


Hi DF,

I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'"
using your method.  The most common key I see that song in is Eb.  The
style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).

So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99
version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an
accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro,
2 bar ending)?

Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.

I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at
play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm.  After all, they have to
mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick
being played over and over again.

If you can do it, great.

I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious
nature of what you're describing.

Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with
intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then
work from there.

But as you say, it's possible . . .

Thanks for outlining how it could be done!


On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> David ...
>
> I'll take you up on your challenge!
>
> Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted
> either as WMA or Wav files.
>
> Laborious, but technically easy.
>
> You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That
> program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high
> accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
>
> It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever
> other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
>
> Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and
> identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the
> file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C
> (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a
> passage could be recorded in.
>
> So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem.
> Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest
> one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
>
> This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together
> section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide
> results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
>
> As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real
> tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key
> for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes
> into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift
> from up or down.
>
[snp]

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

David H. Bailey
 

Hi DF,

I would love to hear you build an accompaniment to "Ain't Misbehavin'" using your method. The most common key I see that song in is Eb. The style I would like to hear is a jazz trio (piano, bass, drums).

So, using a $700 program (the polyphonic version) or even the $99 version (the monophonic version), you will be able to build me an accompaniment (3 choruses, variation in the middle chorus, 4 bar intro, 2 bar ending)?

Cool -- it's the "laborious" bit that would prevent me from even trying.

I just listened to a bass track and think that there is much more at play than simply a pitch-shifting algorithm. After all, they have to mix the various wma files so that we don't hear one single bass lick being played over and over again.

If you can do it, great.

I'm not sure why anybody would want to, though, given the very laborious nature of what you're describing.

Far easier to have BIAB create the song form, start to finish, with intro, ending and various choruses with A and B styles mixed, and then work from there.

But as you say, it's possible . . .

Thanks for outlining how it could be done!


On 12/3/2020 1:18 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
David ...
I'll take you up on your challenge!
Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted either as WMA or Wav files.
Laborious, but technically easy.
You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.
It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.
Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a passage could be recorded in.
So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem. Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.
This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.
As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift from up or down.
[snp]

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: How to connect keyboard ( #BiaB2020)

 

Thanks Dave, appreciate your comments. Have a nice day and regards from Mexico.

Peter.


Re: How to connect keyboard ( #BiaB2020)

 

Thank you for your reply David. Have a nice day. Regards from Mexico.


Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

D F Tweedie
 

David ...

I'll take you up on your challenge!

Here's how to do it ... assuming the RealTrack elements are unencrypted either as WMA or Wav files.

Laborious, but technically easy.

You need a high-end pitch editor such as Celemony's Melodyne. That program can identify the pitch/ key of an audio sample with very high accuracy and has absolute accuracy on a note by note basis.

It can also correct to perfect pitch at 440 hz concert or to whatever other standard such as 432 hz if you prefer.

Now take those three or four identical passages from a RealTrack and identify their actual key (if it is not somehow already tagged in the file name.) For purposes of explanation lets say that the formula is C (or C minor, etc.), D#, F#, and A using 4 of the 12 possible keys a passage could be recorded in.

So if the opening bars in your song were in those keys, not a problem. Just pick the congruent one. But it the key was B, just pick the closest one, in this example C and put it in Melodyne and shift it down to B.

This or course would be laborious to have to stitch a song together section by section. But conceptually it would be easy to do and provide results equal to what BIAB outputs for RealTracks.

As a matter of fact, I'd bet the farm that this is exactly how real tracks work internally. If the sample isn't already in the correct key for the bars of the song, it has a pitch shifting algorithm that takes into account the requested key and selects the sample closest to shift from up or down.

DF Tweedie

On Thursday, December 3, 2020, 3:13:26 AM PST, David H. Bailey <dhbailey52@...> wrote:


On 12/2/2020 8:52 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
> I think this is technically true ... but then they wouldn't follow the
> key changes of  a song. I think it is like a sampler where they have 3
> or 4 identical passages spread out at different key signatures and then
> use the software to fill in the missing keys between the 'sample'
> passages' keys.
>
[snip]

Knowing as little as I do about computer programming these days (I know
enough to incorrectly think that something might be easy to program when
it's actually difficult or incorreclty think that something might be
difficult to program when an experienced programmer can accomplish it in
a few minutes) my mind always overheats and smoke starts pouring out my
ears when I try to wrap my head around the magic that PGMusic has
accomplished with how it handles RealTracks.

Yes, the realtracks are stored as wma files but how they're manipulated
to come together in the correct keys with such great results is truly
magical.

I was originally a huge doubter of the possibilities of realtracks,
preferring the relative simplicity and clarity of the midi styles.  But
with all the work PGMusic has done with them, improving the algorithms
and the sound quality of the realinstruments over the years, I'm slowly
converting many of my BIAB file to realtracks.

But I doubt that anybody could make sense of them in a sequencer all on
their own.  Then again, I've doubted many thing which have become
reality, so have fun experimenting.



--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@...
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com






Re: Real Tracks #WindowsUsers #BiaBPrevious

David H. Bailey
 

On 12/2/2020 8:52 PM, D F Tweedie via groups.io wrote:
I think this is technically true ... but then they wouldn't follow the key changes of  a song. I think it is like a sampler where they have 3 or 4 identical passages spread out at different key signatures and then use the software to fill in the missing keys between the 'sample' passages' keys.
[snip]

Knowing as little as I do about computer programming these days (I know enough to incorrectly think that something might be easy to program when it's actually difficult or incorreclty think that something might be difficult to program when an experienced programmer can accomplish it in a few minutes) my mind always overheats and smoke starts pouring out my ears when I try to wrap my head around the magic that PGMusic has accomplished with how it handles RealTracks.

Yes, the realtracks are stored as wma files but how they're manipulated to come together in the correct keys with such great results is truly magical.

I was originally a huge doubter of the possibilities of realtracks, preferring the relative simplicity and clarity of the midi styles. But with all the work PGMusic has done with them, improving the algorithms and the sound quality of the realinstruments over the years, I'm slowly converting many of my BIAB file to realtracks.

But I doubt that anybody could make sense of them in a sequencer all on their own. Then again, I've doubted many thing which have become reality, so have fun experimenting.



--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: How to connect keyboard ( #BiaB2020)

David H. Bailey
 

On 12/3/2020 4:27 AM, Mr Dave wrote:
Peter,
You can connect your Tyros 5 with a cable usb A to usb B. ( USB-midi )
This type of cable is the same type used to connect a printer to your computer by USB.
Check your Tyros 5 manual as to what functions are available by way of a usb connection to your computer.
I don't think an interaction with BIAB on your computer such as intros, endings, and main variations is possible .
[snip]

I agree with Dave Price on this -- the cable he describes is the typical one shipped with keyboards which have a built-in midi interface. You may need to install a driver program which you can download from yamaha.

I don't see any reason to use the intros, endings and main variations on the keyboard if you're using BIAB. After all, creating and playing those are the core function of BIAB. If you're already happy with what's on your keyboard there's no need to use BIAB. But if you're using BIAB those things from your keyboard would simply interfere with what BIAB is doing.

One thing you can do is to have BIAB create .wav files from a song, with a separate .wav file for each track in BIAB. Then you can open all those wave files in a DAW like RealBand or Reaper or Cakewalk or Logic or others and then use your keyboard to create other tracks using it's built-in intros, endings, variations, and mix them all together that way. I think that musical chaos would result if you play the keyboard's intro alongside a BIAB intro, though.


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: How to connect keyboard ( #BiaB2020)

Mr Dave
 

Peter,
You can connect your Tyros 5 with a cable usb A to usb B. ( USB-midi )
This type of cable is the same type used to connect a printer to your computer by USB.
Check your Tyros 5 manual as to what functions are available by way of a usb connection to your computer.
I don't think an interaction with BIAB on your computer such as intros, endings, and main variations is possible .

Dave Price


From: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io> on behalf of Pedro via groups.io <pelengar@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 5:26 PM
To: main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io <main@Band-In-A-Box.groups.io>
Subject: [Band-In-A-Box] How to connect keyboard ( #BiaB2020)
 
Hi, I'm an amateur musician and a longtime fan of BIAB. 
I would like to know how to connect my Yamaha Tyros 5 to my BIAB so that I can play along with BIAB styles.
Also, would I be able to use keyboard's intros, endings and main variations...?
Thanks for any advice and regards to everybody.
Peter.

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