Date   

Re: Bass root notes only

Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

On 6/9/2018 11:47 AM, Jim MIngs jmings2003@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
Exactly. Use MIDI for what MIDI does best and use Audio for what Audio does best.

And when it comes to editing, MIDI does thousands of things that Audio cannot.
-- 
Bob "Notes" Norton
norton@...
Norton Music - http://www.nortonmusic.com
The Sophisticats® - http://www.s-cats.com


Re: Bass root notes only

james mings
 

I guess I should say real band not real tracks. Maybe the simplest way would be to have been in a box generate two different bass parts —- say a simple bass part, and then a more complex part. Now you have two separate tracks. Try to get them to sound similar which is pretty easy if you choose the same artist for example Neil S. simply erase what you don’t want




On Saturday, June 9, 2018, 11:41 AM, Jim MIngs jmings2003@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

Render the tracks to audio. Then you can cut and paste, say, nice simple bass part mostly roots first chorus, then paste more complex bass part at second course, etc. hope this helps. I had recorded some in real tracks for practice, it is a little clunkier than most DAW’s. But it should work this way. And most Daw’s 

Allow you to drop and drag. I have used Reaper, Digital performer, ProTools, and logic. Reaper is my favorite.

Simons Center for the Arts

161 Calhoun St, Charleston, SC 29401


you can simply drag and drop.




On Saturday, June 9, 2018, 11:15 AM, media_production@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

I did not know you can cut and paste and erase in Real Tracks into a master instrument part.  Can you explain in more detail how this is done in BIAB.
 
Rodger
 
 
 
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Band-in-a-Box] Bass root notes only
 
 

Sure. Make two bass tracks. Choose simple style bass part for one. Then, perhaps, a busier bass style. You could then cut and paste into a master bass part, or simply mute or erase what you don’t want. It takes a few minutes and maybe a little practice, but this is a good way to work.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Friday, June 8, 2018, 11:45 AM, keith.freeman@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

Is there a way, using RealTracks, to get the bass to play only (or mainly) roots in the first and last chorus?



Re: Bass root notes only

james mings
 

Agreed BOB. What is cool to me, is midi and audio working together.




On Saturday, June 9, 2018, 11:35 AM, Bob 'Notes' Norton norton@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

At the risk of sounding obvious. Try using MIDI tracks, they are thousands and thousands of times more editable than Real Tracks.

And especially with bass, a good MIDI sound module isn't that expensive and will last decades with 95% of the sound of a real bass.

Notes

On 6/9/2018 11:15 AM, media_production@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
I did not know you can cut and paste and erase in Real Tracks into a master instrument part.  Can you explain in more detail how this is done in BIAB.
 
Rodger
 
 
 
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Band-in-a-Box] Bass root notes only
 
 

Sure. Make two bass tracks. Choose simple style bass part for one. Then, perhaps, a busier bass style. You could then cut and paste into a master bass part, or simply mute or erase what you don’t want. It takes a few minutes and maybe a little practice, but this is a good way to work.




On Friday, June 8, 2018, 11:45 AM, keith.freeman@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

Is there a way, using RealTracks, to get the bass to play only (or mainly) roots in the first and last chorus?



--
Bob "Notes" Norton
norton@...
Norton Music - http://www.nortonmusic.com
The Sophisticats® - http://www.s-cats.com


Re: Bass root notes only

james mings
 

Render the tracks to audio. Then you can cut and paste, say, nice simple bass part mostly roots first chorus, then paste more complex bass part at second course, etc. hope this helps. I had recorded some in real tracks for practice, it is a little clunkier than most DAW’s. But it should work this way. And most Daw’s 
Allow you to drop and drag. I have used Reaper, Digital performer, ProTools, and logic. Reaper is my favorite.

Simons Center for the Arts

161 Calhoun St, Charleston, SC 29401


you can simply drag and drop.




On Saturday, June 9, 2018, 11:15 AM, media_production@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

I did not know you can cut and paste and erase in Real Tracks into a master instrument part.  Can you explain in more detail how this is done in BIAB.
 
Rodger
 
 
 
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Band-in-a-Box] Bass root notes only
 
 

Sure. Make two bass tracks. Choose simple style bass part for one. Then, perhaps, a busier bass style. You could then cut and paste into a master bass part, or simply mute or erase what you don’t want. It takes a few minutes and maybe a little practice, but this is a good way to work.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Friday, June 8, 2018, 11:45 AM, keith.freeman@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

Is there a way, using RealTracks, to get the bass to play only (or mainly) roots in the first and last chorus?



Re: Bass root notes only

Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

At the risk of sounding obvious. Try using MIDI tracks, they are thousands and thousands of times more editable than Real Tracks.

And especially with bass, a good MIDI sound module isn't that expensive and will last decades with 95% of the sound of a real bass.

Notes
On 6/9/2018 11:15 AM, media_production@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
I did not know you can cut and paste and erase in Real Tracks into a master instrument part.  Can you explain in more detail how this is done in BIAB.
 
Rodger
 
 
 
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Band-in-a-Box] Bass root notes only
 
 

Sure. Make two bass tracks. Choose simple style bass part for one. Then, perhaps, a busier bass style. You could then cut and paste into a master bass part, or simply mute or erase what you don’t want. It takes a few minutes and maybe a little practice, but this is a good way to work.




On Friday, June 8, 2018, 11:45 AM, keith.freeman@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

Is there a way, using RealTracks, to get the bass to play only (or mainly) roots in the first and last chorus?



-- 
Bob "Notes" Norton
norton@...
Norton Music - http://www.nortonmusic.com
The Sophisticats® - http://www.s-cats.com


Re: Bass root notes only

Media Production
 

I did not know you can cut and paste and erase in Real Tracks into a master instrument part.  Can you explain in more detail how this is done in BIAB.
 
Rodger
 
 
 

Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2018 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Band-in-a-Box] Bass root notes only
 
 

Sure. Make two bass tracks. Choose simple style bass part for one. Then, perhaps, a busier bass style. You could then cut and paste into a master bass part, or simply mute or erase what you don’t want. It takes a few minutes and maybe a little practice, but this is a good way to work.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Friday, June 8, 2018, 11:45 AM, keith.freeman@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

Is there a way, using RealTracks, to get the bass to play only (or mainly) roots in the first and last chorus?



Re: Bass root notes only

james mings
 

Sure. Make two bass tracks. Choose simple style bass part for one. Then, perhaps, a busier bass style. You could then cut and paste into a master bass part, or simply mute or erase what you don’t want. It takes a few minutes and maybe a little practice, but this is a good way to work.




On Friday, June 8, 2018, 11:45 AM, keith.freeman@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:

 

Is there a way, using RealTracks, to get the bass to play only (or mainly) roots in the first and last chorus?



Re: Bass root notes only

Keith in Holland
 

Someone has suggested editing the output to remove the notes I don't want. That would take too long, as I'm only using it for practice, not performance, and I want to concentrate on practising rather than editing files.


Bass root notes only

Keith in Holland
 

Is there a way, using RealTracks, to get the bass to play only (or mainly) roots in the first and last chorus?



Re: New Project Questions

Bob 'Notes' Norton <norton@...>
 

First of all, this is all my opinion. But I have been playing in the same duo with backing tracks since 1985 and we have worked steadily since. It's what I do for a living and we've done cruise ships, 5 star hotels, casinos and just about anything else a duo can gig at. I've paid off the mortgage, take a vacation every year either the Americas or overseas (Europe, Asia, Africa). We work more and get paid more than all the other duos in our town.

On 6/5/2018 5:43 PM, 'Larry-Ohio Time Corp' Larry@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
<...snip...>

My plan is to make backing tracks from the down load songs till I learn how to make my own (that could take years), grab my saxophone and start playing. I have all the hardware (horns, amps, studio gear, ect) and now software to do this with Real Band and not MIDI.

I think you are making a mistake to omit MIDI. MIDI is thousands of times more editable than audio that any lack of tone can be much more than made up for by editing. You can change instrument voices (say a strat guitar instead of a les paul), add song specific licks, change dynamics, add expressive elements, fix the endings, add a real intro, and son on. see: http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_vs_loops.html

Get a decent MIDI sound module and the voices will be 90-95% as good as the Real Track and you will be able to edit. I would start with a Ketron SD2 as they have one of the all-around best General MIDI sound sets.

We musicians care about tone, but as long as the tone is in the ball-park for the genre of music you are playing, the public doesn't care. I like Stan Getz's tone better than 'Trane's and they are very different, but both were quite successful in the jazz field.

Pop is even looser. Singers like Dr. John, Stevie Nicks, and so many others with bad voices sell zillions of records. Why? The public responds more to expression than tone. That's another reason why MIDI. With tweaking you can be more expressive for any particular song with MIDI than you can with a pre-recorded audio loop.
I would be interested in talking to other saxophonist who are doing this and any local NE Ohio users. Please send me a message.
This is how I make and use backing tracks with BiaB and a DAW. http://www.nortonmusic.com/backing_tracks.html
IMHO BiaB makes a decent backing track, but it's not ready for prime time. I have over 550 sequences and I would guess 3 of them are straight 'out of the box' without extensive editing.

1) I have never made backing tracks to be used other than for rehearsals. Will I be able to do everything in BiaB/ Real Band or will I need to bring it into Pro Tools? (My one hour of play around in it did not find an EQ.)

2) I have always mixed with an assortment of nearfield monitors for CD/MP3 products. Having the amp and speakers that I will use on stage should I do my mixing on them?

Definitely 'yes' and at soft volumes at first, then check them at gig volumes.


This is your voice. Hours spent on a backing track to make them as good as you can will be paid back. First of all, you will play better if you like the track, and secondly, you will sound better than your competition.

Insights and incites by Notes
-- 
Bob "Notes" Norton
norton@...
Norton Music - http://www.nortonmusic.com
The Sophisticats - http://www.s-cats.com


Re: New Project Questions

David H. Bailey
 

On 6/5/2018 5:43 PM, 'Larry-Ohio Time Corp' Larry@ohiotimecorp.com [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
[snip]
1) I have never made backing tracks to be used other than for rehearsals. Will I be able to do everything in BiaB/ Real Band or will I need to bring it into Pro Tools? (My one hour of play around in it did not find an EQ.)
2) I have always mixed with an assortment of nearfield monitors for CD/MP3 products. Having the amp and speakers that I will use on stage should I do my mixing on them?
[snip]

Welcome back to active BIAB use!

1) If you are particular about EQ and other balance issues and aren't happy with the way the RealTracks blend, then my answer is "Yes, bring it into ProTools." You can have BIAB save your song file as separate .wav files for each instrument/track in BIAB, and then you can import them separately into ProTools and get the balance, EQ, l/r positioning exactly as you want them. BIAB does have a DAW plug-in mode which I haven't played around with, but I believe the concept is that from within ProTools or some other DAW you can work with BIAB directly. That might be even better, although since I haven't played around with it I can't say for certain.

RealBand does have EQ plugins which you can assign to each track and it can directly open BIAB files so you might be able to do all you want in RealBand without messing with ProTools.

2) Given the very different nature of nearfield monitors compared to performance gear, and coupling that with the different listening atmospheres for CD/mp3 listening compared to performance gear, my advice is to do the mixing on your performance gear so you'll know exactly what the sound will be like when you perform. You'll be able to get the mix, the eq, the l/r positioning, reverb, etc. exactly as you want when you perform and there won't be any surprises or any "gee I can hardly hear that acoustic guitar part through my sound system" ouch moments.

I'll be interested to read what advice others give on your questions.

--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


New Project Questions

Larry-Ohio Time Corp <Larry@...>
 

Hi Guys,

 

I have been reading this email list for 8 to 10 years now. Have not used BiaB for at least 5 years and very very simply back then. Purchased 2018 Audiophile version just this week.

 

My plan is to make backing tracks from the down load songs till I learn how to make my own (that could take years), grab my saxophone and start playing. I have all the hardware (horns, amps, studio gear, ect) and now software to do this with Real Band and not MIDI. 

 

I would be interested in talking to other saxophonist who are doing this and any local NE Ohio users. Please send me a message.

 

I would like to start with some simple questions before I ask the stupid ones J

 

1) I have never made backing tracks to be used other than for rehearsals. Will I be able to do everything in BiaB/ Real Band or will I need to bring it into Pro Tools? (My one hour of play around in it did not find an EQ.)

 

2) I have always mixed with an assortment of nearfield monitors for CD/MP3 products. Having the amp and speakers that I will use on stage should I do my mixing on them?

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Larry - Cleveland

 

 


Re: The Real Book

Clifton Davis
 


On May 23, 2018 1:55 AM, "Kevin Doucet kevin.doucet@... [Band-in-a-Box]" <Band-in-a-Box@...> wrote:


Hmmm, is that offer open to other's also?

On 5/20/2018 3:57 PM, andy wesche adwesche@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
 

If not, this may be cheating, I do that I could email a copy to you


This is not an orphaned work.
Please don't encourage him to violate copyright and the creator's moral rights. It's illegal and wrong.  As previously mentioned it is available at http://www.nortonmusic.com/fake37.html 



Re: Mings/ Norton arrangement

Roy Robinson
 

I'm dialing in here to say thanks for sharing your journey and your ART mr.mings  it is inspiring!


Re: Mings/ Norton arrangement

james mings
 

Just saying Thanks, again.

jim


Re: looking for someone to program some songs in BIAB

David H. Bailey
 

On 5/25/2018 8:20 PM, ramoncarrion@yahoo.com [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
Hello members, I am limited by time and talent to program songs into my BIAB,  Is there someone out there who can assist, either in training (online) or actually programming what I want, in which case I will gladly compensate,
When you say "program songs" are you asking for someone to create an accompaniment file for you in order for you to play the melody and do any improvisation you wish? Or will you want the melody programmed also?

D.F. Tweedie has suggested some training videos, plus there a number of free videos on using BIAB at youtube.com.

You should also consider checking out the many fakedisks that Bob Norton sells at <http://www.nortonmusic.com> [disclaimer: Bob sells a couple of my fake disks in addition the many he has programmed plus some by others as well] You may find that the songs you want are already programmed --
all you have to do is buy the fake disk, unzip the files into a folder on your hard drive and then you can alter the song form (number of choruses, endings, etc.) to suit your desires and change the tempo or the key to make it fit. None of the fake disks he sells has melodies included.


--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com


Re: looking for someone to program some songs in BIAB

D F Tweedie
 


From: "ramoncarrion@... [Band-in-a-Box]" <Band-in-a-Box@...>
To: Band-in-a-Box@...
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 5:31 PM
Subject: [Band-in-a-Box] looking for someone to program some songs in BIAB

 
Hello members, I am limited by time and talent to program songs into my BIAB,  Is there someone out there who can assist, either in training (online) or actually programming what I want, in which case I will gladly compensate,
Thank you,
Ramon Carrion
ramoncarrion05@...



looking for someone to program some songs in BIAB

ramoncarrion
 

Hello members, I am limited by time and talent to program songs into my BIAB,  Is there someone out there who can assist, either in training (online) or actually programming what I want, in which case I will gladly compensate,

Thank you,

Ramon Carrion

ramoncarrion05@...


Re: Mings/ Norton arrangement

Bob \ Notes\ Norton <norton@...>
 

David pretty much covered it.

The demos for the expanded styles are set up for an expanded style. Load one up, and you will see that the tempo is actually half what the number in the BiaB window says it is and that two BiaB cells equals one 4/4 bar of music.

If what David wrote and what I added still doesn't make sense, let me know.

Bob

On 5/25/2018 4:12 PM, Jim MIngs jmings2003@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
Thanks David and Bob. I am still a little confused. thank you for putting up with an aging mind. So... if I want to have the ballad play at 60, I enter the chords at 60 and pretend that 2 measures are one and play back at 120? That sounds strange when i do it....and doesn't produce what i expect. Are there demos of these expanded styles in action that i could use as templates?


Thanks a lot. You gentlemen have been so helpful to me
Jim


.David,

Thanks. That was different from the way I explained it, and perhaps even better.

Bob

On 5/25/2018 2:40 PM, 'David H. Bailey' dhbailey52@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
On 5/25/2018 1:00 PM, Jim MIngs jmings2003@... [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
Bob, may I ask you a question? Sometimes I don't get the simplest 
things....I can't figure out how to manipulate the expanded styles. I 
know the extra subdivisions are available, but i don't know how to use 
them. I'm missing something. Please help and thanks again.

I'll try to explain things, then we'll both know whether I'm right when 
Bob jumps in with his response.

The expanded styles are recorded at half-the speed they should be played 
back at.  So if it should sound best at 120bpm, Bob designed it 
basically in "slow motion" so that when it is played back at double 
speed, it sounds as if it's being played at 120bpm.  Then when you set 
your song to be played at 240, it will sound as if it's playing at 120.

Then when you enter your song's chords into BIAB's chord entry screen, 
each measure on the screen is actually a half-measure of your song, so 
you need two measures in BIAB to enter the chords for one measure of 
your song.

Since BIAB won't allow more than 4 chords per measure, you now have 8 
slots to enter chords in for every measure of your original song.

Example:  If you have a song where the first 4 measures have a new chord 
on beats 1 and 3 of each measure like this:  C (2) F (4) | Dm (2) G7 (4) 
using a Norton Expanded style you would enter that in BIAB as:
C (2) (3) (4) | F (2) (3) (4) | Dm (2) (3) (4) | G7 (2) (3) (4) |

And if you ever had a measure which was like this (Rainbow High from 
Evita by Andrew Lloyd Webber): B A G E D B A E (each chord on an 8th 
note) you would enter it using a Norton Expanded Style like this:
B, A G, E | D, B A, E| and it would sound like one single measure when 
it played back.

The Norton Expanded Styles aren't for most songs -- although if there's 
something Bob did in one of them that isn't in any of his other styles 
you could certainly use them for any song.  They're really for songs 
which need more than 4 chords in a single measure.

And they can be hard to wrap your head around until you experiment with 
them a bit, and then they make perfect sense after you hear how well 
they work.  Bob discovered how to break through PGMusic's pigheaded 
insistence on no more than 4 chords in a measure, something I've never 
understood beyond the fact that the coding at the core of the program 
hasn't changed much in all these years and it would take a complete 
rewrite of the core code to accomplish that.  I bet that's something 
that PGMusic simply can't afford to undertake since in reality it is 
rarely needed.  But when it's needed, it was sorely lacking until Bob 
devised the expanded styles.

Now to wait and see if I explained things correctly!

            


-- 
Bob "Notes" Norton
norton@...
Norton Music - http://www.nortonmusic.com
The Sophisticats® - http://www.s-cats.com


Re: Mings/ Norton arrangement

David H. Bailey
 

It should work just as you say, you pick a Norton Expanded style which is designed for a ballad. Not all Norton styles work as expanded styles.

But if you've got a Norton Expanded style that was designed for a slow ballad, you're right -- set the tempo for 120 and it should sound as if it's playing back at 60.

If you've entered the chords appropriately it should be working correctly. Just to be sure you're doing it correctly, if your song is basically 32 bars, you should be entering chords in 64 bars in the BIAB chord entry screen.

If you would like to send me the file off-list I'll be happy to look at it and see if you're doing it correctly.

David H. Bailey

On 5/25/2018 4:12 PM, Jim MIngs jmings2003@yahoo.com [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
Thanks David and Bob. I am still a little confused. thank you for putting up with an aging mind. So... if I want to have the ballad play at 60, I enter the chords at 60 and pretend that 2 measures are one and play back at 120? That sounds strange when i do it....and doesn't produce what i expect. Are there demos of these expanded styles in action that i could use as templates?
Thanks a lot. You gentlemen have been so helpful to me
Jim
.David,
Thanks. That was different from the way I explained it, and perhaps even better.
Bob
On 5/25/2018 2:40 PM, 'David H. Bailey' dhbailey52@comcast.net <mailto:dhbailey52@comcast.net> [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
On 5/25/2018 1:00 PM, Jim MIngsjmings2003@yahoo.com <mailto:jmings2003@yahoo.com> [Band-in-a-Box] wrote:
Bob, may I ask you a question? Sometimes I don't get the simplest
things....I can't figure out how to manipulate the expanded styles. I
know the extra subdivisions are available, but i don't know how to use
them. I'm missing something. Please help and thanks again.
I'll try to explain things, then we'll both know whether I'm right when
Bob jumps in with his response.

The expanded styles are recorded at half-the speed they should be played
back at. So if it should sound best at 120bpm, Bob designed it
basically in "slow motion" so that when it is played back at double
speed, it sounds as if it's being played at 120bpm. Then when you set
your song to be played at 240, it will sound as if it's playing at 120.

Then when you enter your song's chords into BIAB's chord entry screen,
each measure on the screen is actually a half-measure of your song, so
you need two measures in BIAB to enter the chords for one measure of
your song.

Since BIAB won't allow more than 4 chords per measure, you now have 8
slots to enter chords in for every measure of your original song.

Example: If you have a song where the first 4 measures have a new chord
on beats 1 and 3 of each measure like this: C (2) F (4) | Dm (2) G7 (4)
using a Norton Expanded style you would enter that in BIAB as:
C (2) (3) (4) | F (2) (3) (4) | Dm (2) (3) (4) | G7 (2) (3) (4) |

And if you ever had a measure which was like this (Rainbow High from
Evita by Andrew Lloyd Webber): B A G E D B A E (each chord on an 8th
note) you would enter it using a Norton Expanded Style like this:
B, A G, E | D, B A, E| and it would sound like one single measure when
it played back.

The Norton Expanded Styles aren't for most songs -- although if there's
something Bob did in one of them that isn't in any of his other styles
you could certainly use them for any song. They're really for songs
which need more than 4 chords in a single measure.

And they can be hard to wrap your head around until you experiment with
them a bit, and then they make perfect sense after you hear how well
they work. Bob discovered how to break through PGMusic's pigheaded
insistence on no more than 4 chords in a measure, something I've never
understood beyond the fact that the coding at the core of the program
hasn't changed much in all these years and it would take a complete
rewrite of the core code to accomplish that. I bet that's something
that PGMusic simply can't afford to undertake since in reality it is
rarely needed. But when it's needed, it was sorely lacking until Bob
devised the expanded styles.

Now to wait and see if I explained things correctly!
--
*****
David H. Bailey
dhbailey52@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com

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