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Re: Need Help Recording Audio

D F Tweedie
 

Good point, Chris. It's usually called 'direct monitoring.' This is generally only available when you have an audio interface that supports it ... no regular built in sound cards do this as far as I know.

I also have a vague memory that your software also has to be able to have a setting to take advantage of this function in order for what you are recording to have a delay added that is in sync with the latency of the played back audio. Remember, the problem here is not singing in sync to the music, but having the music recorded so that it will still be in sync on playback. This is of course a slightly different issue than the latency that would occur were you playing a softsynth on a midi keyboard.

DF

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Re: Biab with Solid State Drive (SSD)?

D F Tweedie
 

can this be translated into English? :)
What? Don't you speak technogeek?  ;)

DF


Re: Need Help Recording Audio

Chris Huey
 

I don't know if this will help or not but some sound cards support a "Record What You Hear" function. Perhaps that might be a solution...

Chris


Biab with Solid State Drive (SSD)?

Rodney Buckle <rodbuckle@...>
 

can this be translated into English? :)


Wacky Question-- importing midi backwards into BIAB

Charles Glasser
 

If I have midi files, is it possible to import them back into BIAB so that I can use the Guitar Wizard to help figure out some guitar fingerings?
Or am I clinically insane for even asking? ;-p


Re: Biab with Solid State Drive (SSD)?

D F Tweedie
 

Lawrence .... I'm a relative 'noob' to BIAB, but I can definitely answer one of your questions and 'to the best of my recollection' answer the other.

I simply installed the whole program on a secondary drive. Works fine. As you must have noted, the "BB" folder doesn't normally get placed in Program Files directory like most programs do. This is because it operates in a self-contained fashion. So for operating, every single file you see in the BB directory that is in the root folder, that is not in a sub folder, has to be there for BIAB to use it. Some are required for it to run and some, like styles files, are required to be there for BIAB to use them. Even all the subfolders with the styles must be there for you to be able to play the style demo from the style window directly ... although they could be anywhere just to browse to find them an play them.

Second question ... here's where the best of my recollection comes in, Mac a regular and 'expert' on the PG BIAB Windows forum, claims that current drives are plenty more than fast enought and that there is no performance benefit from placing different elements on different drives other than recording audio to a second drive to minimize possible stress on a HDD between read and write operations. He states that once BIAB is loaded up the program is essentially running out of RAM and therefore should place no additional demand on the OS.

Yes, SSD technology is impressive ... but so are Ferrari's. Most of us get places in more mundane vehicles.


Hope this is helpful.

DF

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Re: Need Help Recording Audio

D F Tweedie
 

OK ... you've come along way.

BTW ... the crazy little trick of not hitting the 'OK' button that is mentioned in the link to the post on ASIO in the forum link I sent to you worked for me!

As far as the 1/16 th lag goes ... keep trying to set the buffer a little bit lower at a time. You should be able to have it run at at least 512 bits, which is about a 12 msec delay and should be almost undetectable ... 256 is better! This of course will depend on the power of your computer. Try to 'strip' your computer down to the bare bones when using it for music by making sure all 'back ground' programs like virus checkers, things in the 'sys' tray, other programs in the background, etc. are closed.

You haven't mentioned your Operating System or whether you have an audio interface. If you are on XP there are a lot of resources on the web to help you optimize operating systems.

Finally, if you want a real fast track crash course on digital audio and the home studio go to tweakheadz.com and look at the tutorials. While the guy flogs gear for ZZounds, his information is comprehensive and stellar.

DF

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Re: Biab with Solid State Drive (SSD)?

Eric Dannewitz
 

SSDs make sense for static data. Like a system disk. Or for holding a sample library. Or for a laptop that wants to eek out every little bit of battery life. But the cost is huge right now.

It would make MORE sense to have a rig that has eSATA or something drives that hold exclusive things, and keep those drives defragmented. Like on my MacPro, I have 4 drives, one system, one that holds sample libraries like Kontkat, a drive for projects (DAW projects), and a misc stuff drive.

If you try to do everything on one drive, that will generally kill you....even on something as fast as a MacPro.

But for like BinaB, a lot of the slowness is just the program itself. Look at the "improvements" between 2009.5 and the 2010 Windows versions. Something like 3xs the speed in generating real tracks....which to me means that the program originally wasn't coded all that great in how it was generating the backgrounds initially. And on the Mac, BinaB 2009.5 is a dog....it is really slow. I could load up a 24 tracks 2 hour DAW project with tons of plugins in ProTools in the time it takes BinaB to generate a 4 track 32 bar 10times loop using all Real Tracks. I imagine that when/if they get the 2010 Mac version out, the speed increases would be similar to the Windows version and I'll love the program more....

But back on topic....SSD? It seems like, for BinaB, it is a band-aid. Sure, it will increase the speed of everything. But the real crux of the problem is how BinaB generates stuff. It would be like putting a $2K set of tires on an old VW Beetle. Yeah, it will run smoother, but the underlying issue isn't fixed.

Though I really love BinaB and Realtracks.....I just wish it was faster...

--- In Band-in-a-Box@yahoogroups.com, "emanumitd" <emanumitd@...> wrote:

Peace and Harmony to all,

Does anyone in the group have experience using Biab (and/or ancillary DAW software) with solid state drives (SSD)in their setup?

Of particular interest are multiple-drive systems (whether incorporating SSD or all HDD's) and successful strategies used to relocate Biab (or any other DAW software) files to different drives.

If you are doing somthing like this I'd appreciate a synopsis of your experience.

SSD's are incredibly fast. The real advantage is in seek time. Old platter drives (HDD) have typical real world seek times of 12-18 ms while solid state drives deliver .08 ms to .20 ms (yeah, that's **point oh eight ms**). Read speeds are phenomenal and, depending on your operating system controllers, range from ~100Mb/s to over 250MB/s.

Whoa! Could you use that kind of speed throughout your entire DAW? Yeah, but there are caveats.

SSD weaknesses are relatively slower re-write speeds (due to their architecture), a limited write cycle lifespan of around 10,000 writes per memory cell, and higher cost per GB and, currently, lower drive capacity. 30GB solid state costs around ~$100. A hundred dollars right now can buy a 1TB HDD (or 1000MB)or more of platter disk drives.

To best utilize SSD strengths and avoid their weaknesses my strategy is a hybrid SSD/HDD system: Store the operating systems and essential programs that don't change a lot on an SSD and distribute the data files -- the files that are either very large or are frequently re-written -- among the 'old tech' HDD platter drives.

Maybe another SSD for reading essential audio sample files (that aren't re-written)? Comments and suggestions welcome on this point.

Buying a thousand GB's of solid state is still too expensive for my taste right now, but adding 60-80GB under $200 for the core systems looks good. Even 30GB at ~$100 is enough for the core OS and some essential programs.

Windows ( XP I'm using) writes a bunch of little files and I know how to move those to the platter drives. Biab (and other audio programs) write a bunch of little files, too, and I'd like to hear from anyone with experience or knowledge on moving these files to the platter drives.

Thanks
Lawrence


Biab with Solid State Drive (SSD)?

emanumitd
 

Peace and Harmony to all,

Does anyone in the group have experience using Biab (and/or ancillary DAW software) with solid state drives (SSD)in their setup?

Of particular interest are multiple-drive systems (whether incorporating SSD or all HDD's) and successful strategies used to relocate Biab (or any other DAW software) files to different drives.

If you are doing somthing like this I'd appreciate a synopsis of your experience.

SSD's are incredibly fast. The real advantage is in seek time. Old platter drives (HDD) have typical real world seek times of 12-18 ms while solid state drives deliver .08 ms to .20 ms (yeah, that's **point oh eight ms**). Read speeds are phenomenal and, depending on your operating system controllers, range from ~100Mb/s to over 250MB/s.

Whoa! Could you use that kind of speed throughout your entire DAW? Yeah, but there are caveats.

SSD weaknesses are relatively slower re-write speeds (due to their architecture), a limited write cycle lifespan of around 10,000 writes per memory cell, and higher cost per GB and, currently, lower drive capacity. 30GB solid state costs around ~$100. A hundred dollars right now can buy a 1TB HDD (or 1000MB)or more of platter disk drives.

To best utilize SSD strengths and avoid their weaknesses my strategy is a hybrid SSD/HDD system: Store the operating systems and essential programs that don't change a lot on an SSD and distribute the data files -- the files that are either very large or are frequently re-written -- among the 'old tech' HDD platter drives.

Maybe another SSD for reading essential audio sample files (that aren't re-written)? Comments and suggestions welcome on this point.

Buying a thousand GB's of solid state is still too expensive for my taste right now, but adding 60-80GB under $200 for the core systems looks good. Even 30GB at ~$100 is enough for the core OS and some essential programs.

Windows ( XP I'm using) writes a bunch of little files and I know how to move those to the platter drives. Biab (and other audio programs) write a bunch of little files, too, and I'd like to hear from anyone with experience or knowledge on moving these files to the platter drives.

Thanks
Lawrence


Re: Need Help Recording Audio

lady_jazzer2 <colomtnwoman@...>
 

I was about to ask you if you knew whether or not it was compatible with 64-bit Windows7, then I decided to just go to their website, and there is a new version 2.10-BETA that is supposed to fix things for 64bit/Win7 operation.

www.asio4all.com : Version 2.10 Beta 1

I'm going to give it a try and see how it works...

LJ


Re: Need Help Recording Audio

j.p.
 

DF-

I honestly don't know where I got the ASIO drivers from...I thought they came with BIAB because it showed up as an option. But it definitely wasn't from ASio4All because I downloaded ASiO4All after i encountered the latency problem.

BTW, last night i think I resolved one part of the issue by adjusting the buffer size in the ASIO driver control panel from within BiAB (finally figured out how to do that). That resolved the delay occurring when playing guitar through the computer.

Although this now allows me to accurately record audio over the BIAB midi track, the audio track still lays down about a sixteenth beat later than it should.

So at this point I need to 'nudge' the audio track a sixteenth note earlier in order for it to be in sync, either by timeshifting the audio in BIAB (which doesn't seem to work) or shooting to another program.

Don't worry about condescension...I have no illusions of being knowledgable about any of this stuff so feel free to offer any and all information you have. It is appreciated.


Orbs


Re: Need Help Recording Audio

D F Tweedie
 

Hmmm ... when you note the version of ASIO ... you don't say whose it is. Is this left over from your Cakewalk? Or is it ASIO4All? The later is free and is somewhere in version 3, I believe. In the options setting boxes when you choose and ASIO driver, it will tell you the name ... although there are some generic windows ones that just have a descriptive name like 'Full Duplex" or something like that.

I don't want this to sound condescending ... but since on these forums you seldom know the other persons knowledge base ... don't confuse midi with midi hardware. You are using midi in BIAB, whether with the settings to use the system softsynth or if you have elected to use the VSC or some other softsynth in the options set up panel. I say this because BIAB is simply sending midi notes to those instruments. If you pulled the midi file, once you were happy with it, out of BIAB and imported it to Cakewalk ( or Reaper or any DAW) you would be doing the exact same thing as you are doing in BIAB ... using midi tracks to trigger a softsynth. Except! Now, depending on the horsepower of your computer, you could have more control over the midi and the lower latency you'd require to sing along as the song plays and record with it staying in sync.

Best of luck.

DF


Re: Need Help Recording Audio

j.p.
 

DF-

I am using version 1.7.0.5 of ASIO.

Interestingly, if I open ASIO outside of BIAB, the Audio-System-Test fails.

I can pass the test if I run it within BIAB, but I still get the latency problem.

Go figure.

Thanks for the link to the PG Music Forum although it is getting depressing reading through all these problems people are having trying to overcome the latency issue.

I will keep plugging away though.

I have an old version of Cakewalk which I fire up on occasion.

I don't own a MIDI instrument so I use BIAB as an accompaniment tool and it has been real easy to use... until I tried recording with it.

I will definitely try Reaper though and thanks for recommending it.

In the meantime my dream of using BIAB to record is turning into a nightmare...

Since I don't use a MIDI instrument I haven't a need for another program other than BIAB but at this point I'm willing try anything to be able to record in sync without headaches which I have plenty of already.

Thanks for the help...

Orbs


Re: Need Help Recording Audio

D F Tweedie
 

There are some problems with ASIO even in the latest versions. What version do you have? Do you have Real Band or any other sequencer/ daw program?

If you don't you should take a look at Reaper. Just google "Cockos Reaper." It is a very sophisticated program that you can download and use a totally uncrippled, untime-limited version. They only aske that after 60 days you pay $60.00 on the honor system. It is without question the best deal out there.

For current discussion of BIAB and ASIO issues, see the link below.

http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=264174&an=0&page=0#Post264174

I don't think it defeats the purpose. BIAB's strength is as an auto arrangement tool. It's added a lot of little bells and whistles on to that basic idea ... but almost all of them, including working with midi, can be done better in other programs.
Remember, when you are listening to a BIAB song, you are really just listening to midi. BIAB has a proprietary file system, but underlying that is midi.

DF


Re: Need Help Recording Audio

j.p.
 

Thanks for the advise--

Was tweaking away all night without much results. My version of BiaB has the ASIO drivers and I also downloaded the ASIO4ALL drivers and I'm still working away with that.

Rendering the BIAB MIDI file to audio seems like it sort of defeats the purpose of BIAB altogether, but I guess I haven't much choice in the matter...

Wondering if an upgrade to a more recent version of BIAB would help but I would prefer to save the $$ if at all possible...


Re: Windows-7 / Virtual-XP mode

rkl122
 

Just thought I would pass it along...


http://www.microsoft.com/events/series/thrive.aspx?tab=Videos&seriesid=152&webcastid=12815
Very helpful, thank you!

-Ron


Real Drums and Sound Module

Peter Mercurio
 

Hi All,

I've been using BIAB 2008 with Real Drums through my computer's sound card. I just connected my Korg X5DR sound module to my computer, and configured BIAB to recognize it. My question: Is there any way to use Real Drums and my Korg sound module together, so I hear Real Drums and not the sound module's midi drums sounds.

Thanks, Peter Mercurio


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Re: Need Help Recording Audio

Gary Thompson
 

Orb ...
In BIAB go to menu Opt>Midi/Audio Driver setup. The latency will be displayed - probably around 500ms. This means that your midi is delayed by that much due to driver latency.

You need to consider using a faster midi driver.

--
I guess if you wait long enough, some things go right.
--Greg Goodchild


Re: Need Help Recording Audio

D F Tweedie
 

This is because of the latency ... or delay time ... in most audio drivers. Unless you are using ASIO drivers, there will be a significant delay between when you hit 'play' and when the audio actually starts appearing (odd choice of word!) out of your speakers due to the filling up of the audio buffers prior to the processing of the digital audio bits..

Later when you play the recorded audio back, it is then out of sync with the rest of the audio. There may be a way in BIAB to compensate/ adjust something, but I don't know.

A simple solution ... if you're have Real Band or some other audio program, is to render all the BIAB song to audio, transfer this and your vocal performance into separate tracks and then 'slide' one track until it matches the other.

You can can also download a free program called ASIO4All (just google it) which will give you a choice of using an ASIO driver for your audio in BIAB. Some folks have excellent results with ASIO drivers, which generally come with the purchase of audio interface hardware as specifically designed for that equipment. Some, myself included, have had no love trying to use my ASIO drivers in BIAB. I would be near suicidal were it not for the fact that I have other audio programs that love my ASIO drivers and I can simply export my BIAB song as a midi file and use it in my regular sequencer.

Good luck.

DF



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Need Help Recording Audio

j.p.
 

I am trying to record an audio track over a BIAB song (I am using BIAB 2007 version).

The audio track records, but when I play it back, it is about 1/2 second out of sync with BIAB midi file being played.

Anyone know how to fix this?

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